To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

[ShowJumpSally]

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

@BeMellowOchreZebra why are they truanting ? Because they are bored with school.
Of course they aren't bored when skiving and hanging with their mates. That's my point. They are bored with actual school.

We have a local school that went heavy on discipline like this. It transformed the school and its results. The type of parents that complained were the sort whose children made everyone else's lives miserable. Quite a few moved their kids and that helped a lot.

@BeMellowOchreZebra "It would need to be some sort of government workhouse scheme where they learn skills as well as discipline" .....so just like most schools 😂😂😂

It was the very same when I went to school in the 70's.

However I would concentrate on the education provided.

And they don’t need my permission to get their arse booted, either.
They’d get a formal complaint for that and I’d kick up such an absolute fuss everywhere I could.
Who is going to decide what temperature my child is comfortable in?
GTF with that.

I’m a teacher btw!
My DC were frequently told off for daring to take their jumpers off when they’d been, y’know, RUNNING AROUND OUTSIDE.
I was told it was a school rule.
So I said, show me.

Funnily enough, nobody could because there WERE no actual school rules 🤣🤦‍♀️
Or none that any parent, pupil or teacher had ever been furnished with.

I asked them if they were going to tell a child who was cold on a sunny day, that actually it was hot, so they were not allowed to wear their jumper.

(And believe me, plenty of children keep their jumpers on in the summer!)
Funnily enough, that was met with a spluttered of course not!
I pointed out that it was exactly the same thing.

Anyway, we soon solved the problem. DC went to school in their shirtsleeves (short) in December/January. Their choice.

I am all for upholding school rules. Just not stupid ones. We, as adults/teachers DO NOT get to gatekeep a child’s personal comfortable temperature. Which can vary throughout the day.

How can you say something is boring if you never try it?

They're not bored. They just don't like being told what to do e.g. sit in a seat, have a go at a question.

My school had that rule. It's stupid. If you're warm, you should be able to remove a layer without asking, as you'd be able to as an adult in the workplace in pretty much every setting.

My school had a deputy who used to stand where the school buses were and measure the inches your skirt was above your knee, like be for real 🙈

@BeMellowOchreZebra they've been "trying it" since they they were 4 😂

But it's a ridiculous rule and has absolutely nothing to do with education. I know many children who would struggle with this.
And bringing up a while generation of young people to just follow the rules isn't healthy

EXACTLY

It’s the way many successive generations were brought up. What’s so special about this one?

Is it really so terrible to have to ask to take your blazer off?

We're supposed to turn them into independent beings, but they can't be possibly trusted to decide if they're hot or cold 😂

After covid in DC school all windows had to be open all time in every classroom in winter - they were not allowed to wear coats in classrooms ( though most teachers turned blind eye resulting in spot checks by SALT in coats). So they were sat still in thin cotton jumpers and a thin cotton skirt/blouse freezing cold expected to learn and had SALT insist they should be warm enough.

A concession was then allowed after complaints they could wear a T-shirt under shirts - we bought thermal underwear and they wore that under trousers and shirts sometime with t-shirt and fingerless gloves - two winters that went on.

I think asking to remove a blazer or not wearing a coat inside seems manageable in comparison TBH - it what I did in 90s without much fuss despite traveling in on the bus with no lockers in school.

Kids truant because they are bored....ive heard it all now.

The truanters are far from bored. They just cba to learn anything.

Another who thinks rules are good but not over something like if you’re too hot you should keep on a big heavy jumper!!

YANBU.

I am a strong supporter of strong discipline, but that is just daft.

This sort of formal discipline and (probably) silence in class/corridors etc and sanctions for not bringing the right equipment for a lesson (i.e. pen, pencil, ruler etc) are what underlie good teaching standards. Along with this go desks facing front rather than grouped into 'tables', and restrictions on leaving the classroom during lesson time, and explicit teaching where the teacher and students together practice, rehearse and recall what is taught. These two blogs might help: Greg Ashman 'Filling the pail' and Andrew Old's 'The battleground'. Andrew Old has written pieces on why giving a pencil to a student who hasn't brought one is a discipline issue - and why the teacher must not give way to 'giving out' pens, pencils etc in lessons.
Such rules are the equivalent of not allowing petty crime to flourish as it tends to lead to bigger issues.

I used to love wearing a blazer at school (I’m 50) and we just asked if we could take it off if to hot or feeling sick and generally never had an issue with it. I think they look smart but then I like blazers and jackets?!

I think a blazer is the least of our worries. It’s probably longer than some on the skirts I see at schools near me. I know we used to roll ours up (were meant to be below the knee) but they only went to a practically puritan above the knee.

God I’ve become that old lady complaining about ‘in my day’ and skirt lengths. Apologies lovely Vipers. I’m going back in my box now.

Now come on don’t get too wild ideas… we don’t want children to start thinking independently or learn to make decisions for themselves, do we?

It’s not good manners to ask to take your jacket off.

@BeMellowOchreZebra before about 1914 the leaving age in England was age 12 OR if you had passed Standard 5 (Year 7 in modern terms).
In some areas some children (mostly boys apparently) would work extra hard so they could complete Standard 5 early and be able to go to work.
They didn't want to be a school so they put the effort in to get out of it.

My children's schools are both like this (one grammar school, one comp). In winter not allowed to wear a coat in class - no matter how cold they feel, in summer - not allowed to take blazers off until the final term, no matter how hot they are.

Am guessing schools these days don't believe in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

It makes me quite angry. Because the teachers are wearing what makes them feel comfortable.

@Hercisback1 well yes truanting is usually a mixture of boredom, frustration, anxiety, avoiding bullying....and probably more.
Boredom is definitely one of the reasons.

Parental choice allows you to send your child to a different school then.

Of course they were 🙄