To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

[ShowJumpSally]

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

What you are saying is that they aren’t allowed to take them off - which they are! They just have to ask first. So schools don’t make them wear blazers in the summer and most schools if the weather is really hot have a hot weather provision and allow kids to come into school without blazers.

@Whydoeseveryonewanttoargue i guess if you want to raise a compliant automaton who never pushes for change. I’d prefer to raise an ambitious child who is respected and who respects others but doesn’t just ‘toe the line’ irrespective of what that line is. Makes me think of Nazi officers encouraging that attitude of ‘always blindly obey’

Are they always allowed to take them off when they ask? We weren't. Nor were we always allowed to ask.

And you’d be fine asking your manager for permission to take off a jacket / cardigan or put your coat on, I assume?

arethereanyleftatall · Today 16:43

It's surely just because it's a very simple rule to understand discipline from?

I thought it was universally known that these sorts of small rules result in much better behaviour for the things that matter.

It certainly isn't universally known. It's nonsense. Do you honestly think that an 11 year-old can't understand 'Don't swear at the teacher' until they have first learned to ask permission to take their blazer off? That really isn't how understanding rules works.

If anything, making loads of draconian rules for everything from the tiniest mistake to the most serious behaviour actively muddies the water. It also often means that the good (but only human) kids are constantly a bit fearful amd demoralised by the prospect of being told off and punished, while the major miscreants carry on not giving a shit and not bothering to turn up to detentions (often backed up by their parents).

Wow. So please tell me about this magical place you work where they aren’t rules what time you start, what work you have to do, some sort of dress code, how long you take lunch, when you can go on holiday etc. You have missed the point completely.

Bringing Nazi”s into it. Godwin’s law at its finest. How ridiculous.

It's ridiculous

Same with jumpers when it's 70° outside

I think uniforms are a good thing - but not the 'business dress' style (that no-one in business wears anymore) and not with petty rules over coats (provide lockers) and removal of blazers and jumpers
Which always seems to apply to the boys - yet girls' skirt lengths are overlooked

Senior professional here working for a big organisation. One of the “rules” we have is that we are all adults and can wear what we want as long as we look semi-smart and not like a muppet. Nothing else about our clothes.

There are rules and then there are ridiculous attempts to control individuals, I sincerely hope my DD wouldn’t allow anyone to control her bodily autonomy in this way under a pretence of discipline.
And teachers wonder why they have no respect from parents… seriously this is insane.

Endless posts about how parents don’t agree with simple rules but completely seems to forget that schools are preparing kids for the real world. At some point in work there will be rules that will need to be abided by whether we like it or agree or not.

Work places don't generally have completely pointless rules though do they. No one expects you be hot at work for no reason other than your boss is a control freak.

We get this whole 'schools are preparing kids for the real world' stuff, but tomorrow there will be a post about how the young adults of today can't manage basic things in the workplace or make basic decisions for themselves and everyone will wonder why.....

YANBU

I hate the blazer policy at the local secondary.

They want them to dress like (old fashioned) adults yet be treated like children and not allowed to monitor and mind their own body temperature.

I have to say I wouldn't be THAT bothered about needing to ask before taking blazers off, but I'm just conditioned to accept that as my school back in the last millennium had the same rule.

The "no coats indoors" thing sounds a bit odd though. Does that include corridors around the school? It sounds very impractical. A rule that coats should be removed when you arrive in the classroom would be more sensible.

Imagine you're one of a throng of children walking into the building from the playground in winter. As you pass through the door you have to suddenly not have your coat on. But you're carrying a schoolbag, and quite possibly also a sports bag, musical instrument case etc. You'll have to stop, put all your stuff down, take your coat off, pick everything up again (including your coat, which you now have to carry). It'll cause chaos!

Yes it is ridiculous it's like this at my DDs school & I hate it especially in the summer.

It was the same when I was at school. We all grew up fine.

@ShowJumpSally completely agree with your most recent post! Surely preparing them for the world means encouraging to make respectful, mindful decisions on their own. Also more life skills such as financial planning would be more relevant than policing blazers.

Wow. So please tell me about this magical place you work where they aren’t rules what time you start, what work you have to do, some sort of dress code, how long you take lunch, when you can go on holiday etc. You have missed the point completely.

@Whydoeseveryonewanttoargue apt username!

I don’t think you’re understanding the difference between sensible rules people can rationalise and get behind even if they don’t love them (such as you must request leave at work) and nonsensical rules like ‘you must wear a blazer when hot.’ Workplaces don’t tend to implement the latter as people wouldn’t want to work there. Children, on the whole, aren’t stupid - they want to work with rational rules not be demoralised by pointless ones. Like adults

It is bizarre but there are shades depending on how it's implemented.

At DS's school they have this rule but it's not used to beat kids over the head. Some don't wear them (very high proportion of ND students), and the rule is relaxed or they do no blazer/no tie days when it's hot. I still think it's weird, and others having had the same rule 30 years ago doesn't make it any less weird. But when it's implemented humanely and proportionately, it's a different experience from having it at a school that would rather send them home/to isolation if they don't comply.

The schools have no chance if the parents won't support minor discipline around looking smart and being respectful.

I hate to burst your bubble but some teachers DO say No

They did this when I was at school
I'm allergic to heat so had to have a letter saying I could take my jumper off whenever I wanted without asking

It was either that or be covered in hives and have to go home

Not if you live rurally it doesn't

Which one expects you to wear a clip-on tie these days either?

Teachers don't wonder why they have no respect from (some) parents. We're well aware of the reasons. 'I have no respect for the class teachers who teach and look after my child all day, because the headteacher of my child's school makes some rules I don't agree with' really isn't a very intelligent reason though.

Also more life skills such as financial planning would be more relevant than policing blazer.

it's a teacher's job to teach financial planning? I mean sure, touch on it in PSHE but the time to teach properly, assuming suitably qualified and experienced teachers were available (clue: they're not), is a million times greater than the time it takes to see if a class full of children have their blazers on or not.

Weird comparison.

Be a parent and teach your child how to manage money.

I don't necessarily agree, but it was the same when I was at school 30 odd years ago.

Blazer is a compulsory item, so it's asking permission in a respectful way to remove. I doubt any teacher would refuse.

Personally I think it's a waste of learning time. For 30 children to ask permission to take off their blazer, or interrupting the lesson to ask the question?

My DD works in sales - is a highly paid middle manager - afaik dress code (when in the office) is skirt, blouse, jacket, high heels or dress and jacket and high heels. Ditto her (male) DP, smart trousers, shirt, tie, jacket - no high heels, though. I don't know where you think dress codes are more casual.