To think asking permission to take off a blazer is utterly ridiculous?

[ShowJumpSally]

My child's school has just moved into a new trust. Clearly it's one of those trusts as the latest email announces how children will be placed in internal exclusion or be suspended if they dare to wear a coat in the building or take their blazer off without asking permission.

Schools consistently moan about funding, there's a teaching retention crisis, teachers are overworked and leaving in their hoards, TAs are underpaid and in short supply, children's mental health is worse than ever, but somehow there's time and money to dish out internal exclusions if child gets hot and dares takes their blazer off without asking?

Aibu to say schools should try focussing their time, attention and money on the real issues instead of nonsense made up ones?
^

Out of curiosity I've just asked Y8 dd about this. State comp, she says they have to ask, but at the start of the year most teachers say in lesson 1 "feel free to take your blazers off in my class at the start of the lessons". They know which ones there is a free pass on and which aren't.

She said she doesn't mind the rule, no one she knows across the year groups has ever had any teacher say no, and she said the blazers on and off is quite noisy (aforementioned pencil case jackets), so she says she thinks teachers say this so the rustling and rattling doesn't interfere in their lesson.

While I had her, I also asked if they have to stand when the head comes into the class, she says they have to stand for any teacher or TA who enters, that none of them mind this rule, and that most teachers who need to interrupt a lesson will enter saying "no need to stand".

It's a nice school, odd minor drama in her yeargroup, thankfully not in her circle, and she said no one in her classes ever seem to rebel against these rules.

That sounds like an annoying waste of time to have kids' hands going up throughout a lesson because they're too hot and want to take it off.

YANBU. We didn’t wear blazers in the 80s/90s but still managed to be polite and hard working. Some of us even passed our exams and got jobs! In face despite our scruffy school ‘uniform’ we went into the work place far more smartly dressed than people of any age today. My DD’s blazer is covered in paint round the cuffs from art lessons. No one wears a blazer in the office anymore and they certainly don’t in labs and art studios. I’m in favour of uniform but I think rolled up pleated skirts, ties, and blazers are impractical and prepare young people for absolutely nothing.

How do places without uniforms, or with more lax uniforms, manage then?

I agree with this. Teens love to break rules. Small things like this are much easier to deal with. I saw it in schools who relaxed uniform rules. Some of the pupils moved on to breaking more serious rules.

Broken Windows theory predominantly.

Also -

My office doesn't allow t shirts or shorts for men.

Its adhered to without question - why? Because that's the way it is, the view is you are representing the company to anyone external and thats how they want to be represented.

What its teaching your child is discipline - rules like this are a fact of life.

We didn’t wear blazers in the 80s/90s

You might not have, but there were plenty state srcondary schools in the 90s which had blazers.

I think it's ridiculous. If they must have a uniform, pupils should be able to have the autonomy to decide if they are hot or not. Bearing in mind most blazers are a nasty sweat-inducing polyester, they must be mad to insist on the students wearing them.
I'd also add, most primary school children are able to choose how many layers to wear, and every office I've ever worked in allows adults to take off their jackets if they want to. I actually think being able to control one's own body temperature should be a human right. I know I can't focus if I'm too hot or too cold!

Don't forget covert bag of crisps holder

@JimHalpertsWife a child might not feel too warm at the start of the lesson. Halfway through they are. Can they remove the blazer then?
Depends on the teacher obviously.
It's just a pointless piece of clothing though. There's no need for it.

My daughter's secondary school was the same - incredibly strict and also is an academy. However this school year they've made changes such as the children no longer have to wear a tie and blazers don't have to be worn but have to be about them - so carrying it or in their bag. They've also asked us parents our views on shirts and if we would prefer a move to white polos. I find this all very encouraging as how many working adults have to wear a tie and blazer, seems incredible that we make children wear such formal clothing when studies show children are more engaged and learn best when comfortable.

Do you think exlusion is a good sanctionfor a coat ina school? Do you kiss your bosse's a-hole every time you take your coat off?Doyou need permission to stand up or sit down?

These rules are ridiculous and do nothing for kids learning- and dont prepare them for anything but being obedient animalsinfuture-and I say this as a former teacher.

Get the basics right and behaviour improves up the chain.

Or you could send your son to the secondary school I teach at where senior management are utterly useless, uniform is horrendous, and they wonder why we have toilets smattered in blood, a teacher floored whilst helping a boy being punched, and chucks of hair pulled out the scalps of 12 year olds...

So this is why they start with uniform and basic discipline. If it's made clear that even minor things are not acceptable then kids learn to take responsibility for themselves and genuine bad behaviour cases become fewer.

They have this policy at my DC's school and I am fine with it.
My DC can actually say it in 3 languages despite not studying languages for some years now

Well yes but those of us who didn’t wear blazers were quite capable of buying and wearing a suit for our first office jobs without 5-7 years of practice from the age of 11.

Push back OP- academies are pointless waste of time and space and idiotic rules need to be challenged. If the rules focus on teaching/learning, great, but too many pencil pushers out there making up regulations that have nothing to do with discipline, learning and respect.

If schools were a person we'd label them abusive and controlling.

Our school system is broken. It's not going to get better by trying to take it back to a draconian era, because we are no longer in an era where it's acceptable for children to be seen but not heard. Children are people with feelings, emotions, bodily functions. Why are their needs inferior to adults? If schools actually worked WITH children rather than treated them like animals they may find there's a significant improvement. But oh no lets go back to the 1950's.

@BeMellowOchreZebra when behaviour is like that in schools I sometimes think we should lower the leaving age back to 12/13/14
If they don't want to be there - send them out to work. Many would prefer that.
They misbehave because they are bored out their minds.

I had this at school and don't see a problem with it really. It stops kids leaving their blazers lying around all over the place and losing them.

@Antsinmypantsneedtodance at least in the 50s many could leave at 15 (see my comment above).

It's the same at DD's school not DS's.
I think they believe in the broken bus stop theory even though it's been debunked.
They think that if they sweat the small stuff and instil strict uniform policy then the rest will follow.
I disagree. They ought to be concentrating on bullying, vaping and "low level" disruption that sabotages learning.

The broken windows theory is a criminological theory that suggests that visible signs of disorder, such as broken windows, litter, and graffiti, lead to more crime and disorder. The theory posits that if these signs are not addressed, they can signal to potential criminals that residents are indifferent to crime, and that they can commit crimes without consequences.

They're not bored - they're truanting all day with their mates and not in lessons to say whether they're bored! They're having the time of their life!

I completely agree about leaving at the end of Y9 to work, but who is going to employ kids that have no respect for rules or other people? It would need to be some sort of government workhouse scheme where they learn skills as well as discipline. National service!

My 90 s state secondary had that rule with blazers- usually meant someone fainted before we got blanket permission in hot summers but most teachers were more sane and gave permission to remove easily enough.

My kids school it's no coats - there's no cover at all - in part of UK known for heavy rain but every so often they crack down on coat colours - have to be entirely black. Mine tend to favour rain coat coagula which have no carriage.

We do tend to view getting petty with uniform as a red flag about bigger problems in school these days not being dealt with- not only parents/people to do this.

I fully agree with you and think it's pathetic that they bother with this stuff. Uniforms should be dropped altogether and just let kids learn. The rest of Europe manage without uniforms and get far better results than the UK

as a general rule, schools that sweat the small stuff have way less of an issue with the big stuff. The rest of Europe still have dress codes. Can you quantify ‘far better results’?