Gov refuses home office investigation into historic child sex abuse in Oldham

[Perzival]

I've just read on x that Jess Phillips has formally declined Oldham council's request for the HO to investigate the grooming gangs in Oldham. Why on Earth would they do this? Apparently JP says it should be a local investigation? Clearly that is a conflict of interests and if the council are asking for help they should?

The only link I can find other than x is GB news (apologies).

https://www.gbnews.com/news/oldham-grooming-gangs-labour-government-inquiry-abuse-scandal

The previous government introduced powers to pressure foreign governments to take back criminals, for instance by refusing to issue new visas including tourist and business visas until deportation flights are allowed.

Unfortunately they didn't bother actually USING those powers and instead issued new visas - in the year to Jun 2024, over 100k long-term visas to people from Pakistan and that's not even including the temporary ones.

Not exactly trying is it. I think we both will agree that the last Conservative government massively failed on that front!

Hopefully they'll get rid of them eventually so maybe the money won't be wasted. This article was about Andy B trying again to do something, yet nothing actually happens. These men are not shunned by their friends and family, they are welcomed even after conviction. The victims have to face them in the supermarket. Party politics aside, it really is fucking ridiculous.

So what is the response of our highly competent govt? Have they suspended foreign aid to Pakistan? Have they refused to issue any more visas to Pakistan citizens? Our govts both Tory and Labour have been so weak and incompetent, I am ashamed of this country for the first time in my life.

Oh sorry I see @amberfinch has answered my question and it is as expected yet more incompetence and weakness.

@Alexandra2001 Why not implement the reports findings? and focus on prevention and investigation and get these scum men in jail and/or deported.

I actually personally agree about the inquiry - I think it's an excuse to kick the issue into the long grass - although am happy for one to be conducted.

Or for journalists, activists etc can compile a summary. I'm sure it would be possible to get a lot of data from FOIs plus collect and package up all the small individual previous reports. Probably some have already started.

But the government can start right now with jail and deportations. If they can't be deported it should be a life sentence not living in a 3-bed semi among the victims after 2 years in jail FFS.

https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1875964481492099451/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1875964481492099451&currentTweetUser=GBNEWS

Dr Lisa McKenzie raises some very interesting points. She says she has studied this for 20 years. She says she is an academic. She says at a recent council meeting in Oldham in March there were apparently 4 motions. The two motions about Gaza (and many are currently asking the question should we interfere in foreign affairs) took a length of time to discuss.

Point 4 of the agenda was apparently about why the grooming/rape reports actions hadn’t been implemented - so point 4 was about local white girls of Oldham who are being groomed and raped by local men. This was the final point and the meeting had already over run. They are even at the back of the queue BEHIND discussions on foreign affairs.

She said the Left have absolutely abandoned class politics in the country.

@OneAmberFinch
Totally agree, the will needs to be there and if necessary, laws changed.

Unfortunately, due to chronic underfunding, we don't have the prison spaceth.

Certainly needs to be a change in who gets sent to jail and who doesn't, i believe a former Tory Justice minister is heading this review but the moment we let out non violent offenders, just a few weeks early, the media & public are up in arms and Starmer gets the heat.

A lose lose for the Govt.

What type of criminals are in women’s prisons? Repurpose one? A man who commits rape is a public risk. A woman shoplifting (for example) is not the same level of risk. I think shoplifters should be prosecuted but gang rapists need prioritising.

If you are female are you likely to be imprisoned for a lesser crime due to space? How many of these women prisoners were victims of sexual abuse and received no counselling.

But how many criminals in our prisons are non U.K. criminals? If foreign why don’t we just deport them? I’d expect Spain, Dubai etc to deport our UK criminals immediately (unless they think we are too soft) and remove their Spanish passport (if they are dual). British Football hooligans for example should be banned if they commit an offence in Spain as should ex pats.

I read somewhere that a prison sentence affects your ability to get citizenship - could this be affecting sentencing decisions?

If you have been convicted of a crime and given a custodial sentence, it is likely that your application will be refused until a certain amount of time has passed. For any convictions that resulted in a sentence over 4 years, it is unlikely that you will ever be granted citizenship.12 Feb 2024

@Alexandra2001 some sex offenders are apparently getting early release. sept 2024. This isn’t an area I know much about but I remember it from last year - SD40 I think it’s called.

https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-some-sex-offenders-to-get-early-release-from-prison-under-government-plans-warn-whistleblowers

It means 60% sentence reduction for some prisoners.

sorry it is SDS40

i completely agree. I was referring to the US being involved.

Sir Keir Starmer stated that the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), chaired by Professor Alexis Jay, was "comprehensive," as he dismissed calls for a statutory inquiry into grooming gangs.

He also accused politicians now advocating for a statutory inquiry into grooming gangs of "jumping on a bandwagon of the far right”.

How to misread the mood of the country completely. .

I mentioned the US just because they are the most powerful Western country and used to have similar values to ours (I say used to as ours are now in the pits and I feel that evil has prevailed). What would you suggest? Labours idea is for cash strapped councils to investigate themselves even though alot of their mainly Labour officials are implicated. The last enquiry was into all CSE so very broad even though Catholic abuse scandal (alot smaller in this country) got its own enquiry. I suspect members of govt are also implicated so who will do an enquiry?.

Stronger implementation of previous inquiries recommendations is what is needed.

The inquiry was 7/8 years in length, how much more comprehensive could it be? have you seen it?

Are you aware of its recommendations?

Starmer said "Badenoch etc were jumping on the bandwagon of the far right" by supporting attacks on serving MP's, like Jess Phillips

Honestly, we ve learnt nothing from the murders of Jo Cox and David Amis... i guess many wont be happy until she is also attacked... again.

I agree, just get on with implementing the recommendations.

He is right that the Tory leader is jumping on a bandwagon, having seemingly done nothing when in government.

The mood of the country I suggest is to do something, combined with those who covered up or did not take this seriously being prosecuted.

It's not just Post Office senior executives and those responsible for the Grenfell deaths who people want to see in prison.

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA) may have lasted for seven or eight years, but its length doesn't equate to comprehensiveness, particularly when it failed to address key systemic issues.

Many of its recommendations have been ignored, and victims feel their voices were sidelined. How can we consider it comprehensive when so many are still seeking justice? Do the victims agree with this view?

Starmer’s dismissal of calls for further inquiry as "jumping on a bandwagon of the far right" is an attempt to stifle legitimate debate. Reducing this to political smear tactics only hinders justice.. This isn’t about the far-right; it’s about addressing the scale of the problem and the need for urgent action.

No debate is over. Discussions can no longer be shut down by screeching about the far-right.

The claim that anyone is advocating violence against Jess Phillips is not only ridiculous but also a gross misrepresentation of the situation. No one is calling for violence—what’s being called for is accountability.

As an MP, Phillips must be held to a higher standard, particularly when her record on issues affecting women is inconsistent. See her comments on the rapes in Cologne a few years ago, and her somewhat luke-warm support for women’s sex-based rights.

It’s easy to claim to support victims, but where is the consistency when it comes to addressing real, systemic issues?

So the inquiry may have been long, but it has no where delivered the accountability and reforms needed. Until we confront these failings, we risk repeating the same mistakes, and no one should be satisfied with that…and nor should we.

What I and I suspect most of the British public would have liked to have seen, is some concrete detail on exactly what they will be doing to accelerate implementation of these recommendations.@Perzival
(Sorry, tagged you and cannot remove it for some reason)

As well as a concrete response to WHY DID SOME OF THESE PEOPLE ONLY GET 2 YEARS IN JAIL, WHY WERE THEY RELEASED EARLY, WHY ARE THEY STILL IN THE COUNTRY?

I agree with you @barr77 apart from your use of "we." I now consider the establishment as my enemy committed to making the country worse and treating white people particularly children and girls as second class citizens. I do not want to be associated with them at all and couldn't give a toss about mps safety when they don't come a toss about the publics and often have security staff.

Well said!

I’m politically disgusted by how both the Conservative and Labour parties have treated this issue as a political football. The scandal was first exposed under Labour’s watch, yet neither party has taken meaningful and allowing the issue to be swept under the carpet
The Conservatives, meanwhile, have done nothing to address the problem while in power. Now, they use it as a political tool, exploiting the suffering of victims for their own gain, despite their own inaction.

Both parties, all parties, have utterly neglected their duty to protect victims and ensure justice, and it's beyond disgraceful that they continue to play these games while lives are destroyed.

It is shameful and unforgivable that, after years of suffering and loss, no real change has been made.
@

Im so disappointed in Kier Starmers response - deflecting with the standard "far right" trope. Not surprised though I had thought it could be a chance to show some backbone.

The issues around the "comprehesive" report are (in the words of the journalist behind the current expose, Charlie Peters...:

• Grooming gangs were lumped in with other abuse networks, while other subjects like online abuse, the Catholic Church, and care homes got their own investigation.
• The final report mentions Rotherham just once in 400 pages. It only refers to Rochdale in relation to Cyril Smith, the Lib Dem MP who sexually abused young boys in the town. Telford isn’t mentioned at all.
• IICSA did release a report into organised networks in 2022, but it did not take a look at the national prevalence of abuse gangs. Instead, it looked at six case study areas where there were no significant reports of grooming gangs. None of the Northern towns which have featured prominently in the scandal were chosen.
• The only place they looked at which had a grooming gangs scandal was Bristol, where girls were targeted by a Somali abuse and rape network over many years. GB News has identified over 50 different towns and cities that have endured abuse gangs, almost all of which haven’t had proper inquiries. Clearly more investigation is needed.
• Despite multiple reviews and academic evidence pointing to the over-representation of Pakistanis in this form of child abuse, the report uses the term ‘Pakistani’ just once.
• There is no proper discussion of the stifling effect of political correctness that led to many authorities avoiding the issue entirely.
• The most controversial question is that of ethnicity. The report found that the police failed to record the ethnicity of perpetrators in between 28% and 86% of cases.
• Whistleblower Maggie Oliver has accused IICSA of being a “cover up”. She pointed out that it relied on officials rather than the testimony of survivors, despite the failure of officials being a key reason why the grooming gang scandal happened. Two-thirds of the statement she gave to IICSA was cut out. And many survivors weren’t even given a chance to testify.
• The current political approach is to let local councils organise their own inquiries when they request them. But these are major political battles, with reports in Telford, Rotherham, Rochdale and Oldham all taking years to be achieved. Survivors have to battle with politicians blocking them. Some Labour-controlled councils have voted down attempts to hold an inquiry on several occasions or put pressure on government to ignore requests. And as the IICSA report noted, some towns do not wish to be labelled as ‘another Rochdale or Rotherham.’ They don’t want the bad press of the truth. In some towns like Oldham, where a council employee was an abuser, survivors worry about local authorities organising the investigations.

etc etc....

Sometimes it's like Starmer would like to hand the baton to Reform personally.

I can't understand how he is so far away from the mood of the country.

Most media still playing the game. More stories on the Musk twitter drama, Tommy Robinson, accusations of being far right etc than the actual story.

The media is entirely controlled by the government, perhaps not directly but they set the agenda and the journalists, the vast majority of whom with the decline of local papers as a training ground, are upper middle class school and university friends of the politicians and civil servants, dance to their tune. There is no one to speak up for the disadvantaged working classes outside London. This is why they stopped bothering to vote - they knew it made no difference. Interestingly, the only thing they did turn out for was the Brexit referendum - a clear answer to a question which the Westminster elites couldn’t ignore or sweep under the carpet. Working class people aren’t all stupid or racist, much as the media would like to believe they are. But they live in the middle of these situations and have to live with the consequences.
But, Starmer says we are being manipulated by the ‘far-right’, so nothing to see here…

Yes you re correct, recommendations ignored, hence issues continue... still, unbelievably, no statutory requirement to report CSA by those in authority!! one of the 20 recommendations and one made by previous inquiries.

So, i have no faith whatsoever, that a new inquiry will achieve anything at all.

Again, Starmer referred to "jumping on the bandwagon in regard to Badenochs support for attacks on MPs"

Why are you repeating a lie? same as the mis representation of Phillips on the Cologne attacks, you know very well what she said or you should do, if you do care about the issues & fairness in Politics.