Don’t want MiL at my mother’s funeral

[Toomuchtrouble4me]

My elderly mother has passed. She will have a small intimate gathering of closest friends and family.
My MiL wants to come, I have said no, it’s intimate, we are grieving and surrounding her with those who loved her. Mil and mum had relationship beyond pleasantries when they met at kids birthdays etc.
MiL won’t know anybody there and I feel wants to come to gawp, as a spectator, she didn’t live my mum, she didn’t have a relationship with her and mum wasn’t keen. I really don’t want her there.
DH is sulking about it.
For context they are a large catholic family and if they’ve vaguely nodded to someone at a bus stop, they will go to the funeral. We are CofE and far more reserved, I actually think it’s rude to attend a funeral of a person you don’t have depth of feeling for. Both perspectives are valid, but as it’s My Mother - AIBU to just say back off, this is my mums day, my decision, it’s not about your mum and she’s not on the list, that’s the end of it. I’m happy to tell her she can’t come.

How do you know that? If respect was at the heart of the MIL wouldn't she respect the OP?

Your MIL needs to respect your wishes. She can send a card of condolence.

She hasn't been given the chance.. as she hasn't even been told OP would prefer it to be a private intimate funeral.

Have you told her yet OP?

'There's a long list of people who can apply for a contract order.'

That's not really true . In most cases contact application is restricted to a group of people that the court itself will refer to as ' members of the family'.

It’s shorter to write “Oh, MIL relationships aren’t enshrined in family law, oops, my bad”.

If my SIL's mother died I would expect to go to the funeral. We're not close nor are we catholic but I know her and her family well enough to go without it feeling an imposition. I would also want to support my DD.

However if I were told by Son IL that it was a small intimate affair I would accept that it meant back off, you're not welcome and wouldn't attend.

I think that OP knows her MIL's motivations and reasons for attending OP's mum's funeral better than you do.

She is not there to pay her respects to OP's mum. She had no relationship with OP's mum in life. Attending funerals, even of people you aren't close to, is part of OP's MIL's culture but not OP's. OP's MIL has never shown any respect to OP or her mum in all the time that OP has known her so she is unlikely to start now.

Who can apply. The child's mother, father or anyone with parental responsibility can apply for a court order. Other people can apply for these court orders but they'll need to get permission from the courts first

So, grandparents have no special pathway, they apply for permission to make a request just as other people can.

Of course the reality is that most people applying for permission to apply will be family members.

And there are clear definitions of what family relationships are, that doesn't equate to a legal definition of "family".

OP was asking here before telling the MIL. She has cited past behaviour and lack of relationship with her deceased mother as reasons. She's now made her mind up and will be speaking to her MiL . Or hopefully her dh will step up and speak to his dm.

Op is not excluding only one person. She has set the perimeters around the funeral as small and immediate family. Everyone else is technically excluded, although why they would wish to intrude is beyond me if they get the memo is beyond me.

Really what is happening here is the MIL wishes to pay her respects and does not realise the intimacy of the funeral.

Op, I would build bridges with your MIL. Call her well in advance/ASAP. Thank her so much for her respects, explain your Mum's wishes and that you have explained the same to others so you cannot deviate without fallout. Instead, that your Mum wished for those beyond your immediate family to take time to go for a beautiful walk or take time to do something they really enjoy and give thanks to celebrate both her life and theirs. That her firm belief was life was for the living.

If you explain with care and have a good chat, your MIL will feel her duty is done without having to attend. And it will have an added benefit in that if you really listen to one another you may realise that you have more in common and have a better understanding and sympathy for one another. We all think of things differently, but very few people are all good or all bad.

This. And also she can visit the graveside after the ceremony if she reall wants to pay her respects.

You don't need a funeral to pay respects to the dead.

If you explain with care and have a good chat, your MIL will feel her duty is done without having to attend. And it will have an added benefit in that if you really listen to one another you may realise that you have more in common and have a better understanding and sympathy for one another

Or @NamechangeRugby, perhaps the OP could focus on planning her beloved mother's funeral and rely on her dh to ensure it goes ahead as OP wishes. And whilst he is having a good chat with his mum. he can find out why she can't be bothered with her grandchildren?

@Onelifeonly @thepariscrimefiles yeah, you're right. I didn't word my response well, I was coming at it more from a general why Catholics go to more funerals rather than from the POV of the OP specifically. Made sense in my head.

It's the opposite.

She can visit the graveside after the ceremony if she really wants to pay her respects
You don't need a funeral to pay respects to the dead

This is very true, @SugarPlumpFairyCakes, but from what OP's said it appears MIL/DH don't consider it enough ... apparently she needs to be SEEN "paying her respects", and as said upthread I'd love to get my head round why

I once asked the same of my late, exMIL and didn't get a word of sense there either - just a flappy hand and an "It's what you do ...", when what she actually did was to make each event as much about herself as possible.
And the value in that escapes me completely

My DH is catholic and he goes to funerals where he barely knows the deceased but it is a sign of support for the bereaved. If you have explicitly said you do not want her support then she should probably stay away.

As this thread is about the attendance or not of OP's MIL at her mum's funeral, what on earth do the rights of grandparents to apply to the court for contact with their grandchildren have to do with it?

You are twisting yourself into a pretzel to to try and prove a legal relationship between OP's MIL and her mum, where one absolutely does not exist. There is no right, moral or legal, for OP's MIL to be invited to OP's mum's funeral.

Even with the legal recognition of a blood relationship between a grandparent and their grandchildren, contact would only be granted against the parents' wishes if the grandparent can prove an ongoing, caring, beneficial relationship with their grandchildren. OP's MIL does not have this with her grandchildren so she would fail on that point.

@thepariscrimefiles

My point isn't how they would fare in court, the point is that these two people are generally recognised to have a familial relationship. Even in a court, that relationship, though not codified, would be recognised as existing and would be a consideration. The argument made that the MIL is not family is bizarre.

There is no codified or legal relational between the two mothers of a married couple.

If the two mothers meet regularly and build up a close relationship, they may consider each other to be family. If they hardly ever, or even never meet, if they have no direct relationship or do not even like each other, they wouldn't consider each other as family and each of them would make decisions on that basis.

OP's mum didn't consider OP's MIL to be family, didn't like her and didn't want her to attend her funeral. Her wishes should be respected.

I disagree with not wanting people you don’t know at your parents funeral. My DFs funeral was full of people I didn’t know, he had a whole life that I wasn’t part of.

It’s the same when people say if they didn’t see the deceased in life they shouldn’t come to the funeral. As I said my DFs funeral was full of people, people who hadn’t seen him in years, that didn’t mean they didn’t care, love or respect him. There were ex colleagues, drinking buddies, my aunts friends who knew him when they were kids, they came to support my aunts and to pay respects.

Saying this, I fully 100% believe that the next of kind can say if they don’t want people to attend and this should be respected. When my DF died my mother who didn’t like her sisters made it clear they weren’t welcome, but her brothers were fine. My DF was very good friends with his sisters ex husband, he saw my dad days before my DF died but knew my aunt would not want him at the funeral so he graciously stayed away. My aunt would never have asked him not to attend out of respect for my DF. They both acted the way people should when it comes to funeral etiquette and behaviour.

Regardless Of OPs reasons, they should be respected when it comes to the OPs mums funeral.

I am lucky to have a circle of very very close friends. We are a mix of British, Irish, c of e, catholic, atheist, agnostic people. We’ve reached the difficult stage of life where parents have started to pass away. In general, we have attended the funerals of each others parents, sometimes even if we never met the parent and sometimes if we grew up and knew the parent very very well, to support our grieving friend. There have been occasions where a friend has said ‘actually, it’s just going to be immediate family, so no need to for you to attend’, ie ‘please don’t come’. So we didn’t go because we love our friend and respected her, her wishes and the way she needed to grieve and wanted say goodbye. And guess what, not one of us queried or took umbrage about that, regardless of nationality, culture, or religion. I suspect its because none of are massive tosspots.

OP, I know you won’t be returning to this thread but I am very sorry for your loss. I wish you strength and solace xx

“In the UK no legal definition of ‘family’ exists. This paper examines the way in which families are constructed in the law of England and Wales. It argues that the law is not based on a consistent notion of what a family is or should be, but rather that different domestic units are treated as familial for different purposes. The arrangements privileged, in the sense that they merit legal regulation, are marital arrangements and heterosexual domestic arrangements.” (Gandhi PR and Macnamee E (1991) The family in UK and the international covenant on civil and political rights 1966. International Journal of Law, Policy and the Family 5(2): 104-31)

Could you point us all to where a mother-in-law is legally defined as family to a daughter-in-law or son-in-law?

I just think that the idea of dictating who can or can’t attend a funeral is weird. Unless someone has committed a heinous offence against the deceased, what is the problem in them attending a funeral to pay their respects if they wish to do so? A funeral isn’t a party or a wedding, you don’t issue invites, therefore I also don’t think it’s ok to ban people who want to attend. Unless the deceased actually left an explicit instruction that they didn’t want X or Y to attend.

MIL is family to OP's children. They have a genetic relationship.
She is not family to OP, nor to her mother. There is no genetic link. So your logic is entirely flawed.

OP's Mum made it clear who she wanted to attend.