Should I of gotten in the car?

[CountryVic]

I have a friend with 2 kids, ages 5 and 10, her 10 year old has additional needs and can be quite hard work (suspected ADHD).

When we go out together, she has to drive because of the car seat requirement for her 5 year old. Lately her 10 year old will not get out of the front seat when picking me up, I’ve had to resort to sitting in the back with the 5 year old and her car is not overly roomy in the back seat. The last time I was in the back for 1 hour 20 mins each way and it was super uncomfortable on my back. In the past when I have managed to get in the front seat before him, he has kicked the chair constantly on the drive back.

Last week I was asked if I wanted to go watch their football game, so I said yes but that I needed to sit in the front seat. I reminded him of this on Monday when I bumped into them down the street. They came to pick me up this morning for 7.45am. He was not going to get out of the front seat, no amount of telling off or bribing or threats from his mum worked, and he was really shouting and winding the window up and down, if the door was opened he would slam it, my neighbour actually called out is everything ok? So I shut the door and said I’ll drive my own car and meet you there. She was a bit put out by this but I said my backs not been that great and I don’t want to sit in the back for 45 mins and he’s clearly not going to move.

So she left, I got in my car, but then realised that I didn’t know which football oval they were playing on. I tried calling her but no answer so I sent a text saying I needed the oval name and address and set off to the area I thought it was in. 15 mins into the drive I stopped for a takeaway coffee, no text response from her, called again and no answer. So I sent another text and said I’ll have to give it a miss as not sure which oval, and I went home.

I got a message from her at 11am saying it was a shame I missed out on their great day out and next time I should be a little bit more tolerant, because I know how their son can be, and that flexibility goes a long way in a friendship. I’ve responded that from now on it just may be easier if I drive myself, and that I’ve always been accomodating to her family’s needs, but the shouting at 7.30am was just to much for me.

Should I of gotten in her car? AIBU here to say I’ll drive myself from now on, so I can avoid all the drama? It does mean we can’t catch up in the car but to be honest he’s usually talking over the top of everyone and cuts you off so it’s not like the conversation is flowing well. I do enjoy spending time with them and she says she appreciates the extra hand as we typically do kid things when her husband is not available, and I always pay for lunch or dinner for us all, and my own entry into events. My children are in their 20s now so maybe I’m less tolerant. I do value our friendship, we’re the same age but I had my kids at 25, 27 and 30 and she had hers at 37 and 42 - we’re both 48 this year.

TLDR - would you sit in the back seat of a car if a child wouldn’t move for you? Or drive yourself.

YANBU, my 9 year old ds is diagnosed with ADHD. It is not an excuse and had I been in that position he would have been made to move to the back. If I was you I’d absolutely take your own car in the future, there’s no reason she shouldn’t be understanding to this and tolerance works both ways.

Oh dear, the old gotten debate rears its ugly head yet again. In NI, Scotland and Ireland, 'gotten' is perfectly acceptable (not necessarily used everywhere, but generally speaking.) The UK isn't just England. Maybe it should be though, since the rest of us are invisible and irrelevant.

@LaDamaDeElche - but 'gotten' is not used in British English. It's only used in US English.

Here's a page from the Britannica dictionary to show this...

And here is the irregular verbs list from the Cambridge text book where we teach both forms. The OP isn't British either is she? I thought she was Australian, so very likely that this is the commonly used past participle there. Both are correct.

It's not just used in US English.

Havent RTFT but have seen posters criticising your decision because of the suspected ADHD.

Thing is - like all sorts of spectrum conditions - ADHD can be really awful or fairly manageable - and does often improve as children get older. My DS has ASD and ADHD, diagnosed aged 4 - and was massively challenging at primary school. Now 16 he is the loveliest boy (although some social issues etc).

From my experience, and those of my support group - I would say if a ten year old is not yet diagnosed - he is unlikely to be at the most challenging end of the spectrum. And his Mum should absolutely be putting boundaries and rules in place as appropriate. Yes - as parents we choose our battles, of course - but you are not unreasonable in thinking she could have discussed all this with you earlier. You told her DS in advance you'd like to sit in the front - she could have quietly said that wouldn't work, and you'd have agreed another solution.

Or if he had had a major meltdown that morning - she could have texted you to explain before she arrived.

Personally I'd sit in the back as I have no problems with that - but if you prefer to drive then fine. But please don't let everyone guilt you with the poor disabled kid line - he sounds reasonably functioning to me. You shouldn't have to pander to everything at the last minute, every time.

I have ADD and autism and so do my kids. If he's not severe enough that he doesn't understand that he has to behave and do as his mum asks then quite frankly your friend is a dickhead. My kid would have been moved so fast into that back seat that they wouldn't have known how they got there. I don't even lift a hand to my kids but they're taught manners and respect. This boy clearly has none. I have one child that's very severe and obviously I don't hold them to that standard but nobody would expect that anyway. I'm tired of people letting kids on the spectrum in any way at all, behave how they like just because their reaction to things can be a bit more difficult. She knew he was going to behave like this and she let him do it. She's not a friend to you to disrespect you like that and I would have ditched her. She also clearly let you drive to the place or try to and purposely ignored you when you asked for directions. Bin her.

You're dead right. My kids are all diagnosed, as am I. The others get treated the same as any child with adjustments where needed to allow for their issues. I get them better than anyone because I myself am autistic/ADD. One of my children is older but has the mind of a 9 month old baby. Can't even let us know they're hungry, will just indicate by crying. Needs spoon fed, everything a 9 month old needs. We would never ever expect that child to have manners or respect etc. It would be preposterous in the same way as if they were 9 months old. The others, it's a different story. This nonsense that being on the spectrum means they never get taught how to behave is abuse. There's something most people don't realise about autistic people. Once we turn adult, nobody makes any accommodations for us like the parents might have. The world is cruel and unless someone is very obviously vulnerable (and sometimes not even then) nobody stops to say aw I'm OK with this outlandish behaviour because the person has autism. Absolutely not and these parents are setting these poor kids up for a hell of an adulthood.

I think you're wonderful to even want to spend time with your friend when she has her brat of a son with her - I wouldn't! She's rewarding his bad behaviour by giving in to his tantrums, that's up to her .... but I'd choose to lessen the time I spend with her when she has the brat with her until his behaviour improves, and that's not going to happen any time soon whilst she keeps letting him win.

Kid is a brat, mum is failing to parent him adequately. It's mad he is able to be so disrespectful to a adult. Part of her reaction is probably embarrassment as she feels judged for failing to parent. If she's your friend go ahead and have a relationship with her, but take separate transport where you can and if the kid is kicking off, you don't have to tolerate it - you can always pack up and go home.

And yet the child manages to sit in the back seat when they go out as a family. Stop making excuses for bad behaviour.

If you're teaching to ESL speakers across the world, then you're presumably teaching American English, as that is the 'global' English language. I don't dispute that 'gotten' is acceptable in American English.

It’s in the irregular verbs list in all text books.
Do you mean all of the textbooks you use? Or all textbooks ever? Because if it's the latter, that's quite a claim.

To be clear, I wasn't correcting the OP- I agree that's very bad manners. I was correcting a poster who had corrected the OP. If you're going to correct someone else's spelling, punctuation or grammar, then your own is fair game.

You were quoting Cambridge sources in some of your quotes - it’s in all the Cambridge textbooks, which along with Trinity are the most respected ESL exams. The Cambridge syllabus is British English, but as language evolves and certain words are used interchangeably we wouldn’t mark down for us US spellings or vocabulary etc. Gotten is widely used and is correct grammatically though. That is a fact. You originally said it wasn’t a word, so whether it is more commonly used in one place or another doesn’t change the fact that it is a word and that the OP wasn’t wrong to use it.

Yes, I did later clarify that what I should have said was that 'gotten' isn't a word in British (or indeed Australian) English. Just as 'elevator' and 'sidewalk' aren't words in British English.

As a teacher in Britain, I would mark students down for using the word 'gotten', because I am specifically teaching British English, which you are not.

Yes I am. The Cambridge syllabus is a British English syllabus. Taking into account the evolution of language doesn’t take away from the fact that the syllabus remains as a British English syllabus. It’s called Cambridge for that reason lol.

Except as has already been pointed out to you, gotten is definitely a word in Australia. In fact, we use it as much if not more so than America.

You and I have already had this conversation. I'm pretty sure I was the last person who replied to you. If you're desperate to continue the conversation, why not reply to that comment, and we'll go from there?

Edit: I may be wrong, but was your last comment the one where you told me that 'gotten' was regularly used in theses in Australia? That was fun.

I did reply to you.

As I said, speaking as a born and bred Australian, gotten is probably more common Aussie vernacular than it is American.

Ys, it IS regularly used in Australia. I don't understand why you cannot accept an Australian informing you of this. You don't seem to know much about Australia, do you.

Ah, I'm afraid I missed your reply- apologies.

I don't dispute that it's used in vernacular (although I'm highly dubious that it's used in theses, or that it's widely taught in schools); however, there are plenty of words used in vernacular, in all countries of the world, that aren't considered proper usage. I've heard some British people use the word 'gotten', but it doesn't make it British English.

The reason I "cannot accept an Australian informing me of this" is that, to me, you are just a random person on the internet. For all I know, you're not even Australian! The fact I'm not taking your word for it isn't personal, so please don't get upset about it.

I don't claim to know anything about Australia, which is why I made sure I used Australian sources (which I shared on this thread) to check whether or not 'gotten' is a grammatically correct verb form in Australia. Those sources said it wasn't.

You said about not being able to have a catch up if you drive yourself. If you are in the back seat and he is talking loudly/shouting in the front seat, presumably she wouldn't be able to hear you anyway. She is being unreasonable OP, you arrange to drive yourself and I think you paying for lunch for everyone is very generous of you.

It’s really her problem, you said your back suffered in the back seat. She let him sit up front, he was never going to move. I wouldn’t bother trying to understand it. She will always let you slide in favour of her child, which she absolutely should.

It's hilarious. All the people getting their knickers in a twist about 'gotten.' On a social media site. Why does it annoy them so much? I have a sneaking suspicion that it's anti Americanism at its finest. Come to NI and you will hear it used with gay abandon and we, last time I checked at least, are part of the UK. Sadly.

OP neither the mother nor child respect you enough. Don't let them persuade you to accept their valuation of you. If he can sit in the back for his Dad then he can for you.
Do they respect you less because you're a woman? Does it have to be his Dad that tells him?
Well done for respecting yourself enough to say no. I would definitely be spending less time with this family. I am astonished the mother was not apologetic.

Why is ADHD an excuse for poor behaviour? The kid is unmannerly and rude.

You were absolutely NOT unreasonable.

I fully understand & support the difficulty of parenting children with additional needs but 'suspected ADHD' does not mean her child cannot understand & comply with reasonable requests & if he (a) is used to sitting in the back seat when travelling with his dad & (b) would have had to get out to even let you in anyway, then he was 100% being a brat & your friend was the one who was unreasonable.

In future, I'd just tell her you're always going to drive yourself- why should you be in pain because she's a weak parent??