Husband’s white lie but knows I can’t hack lying

[Pitypartayfor1]

Let me start by saying I know this is trivial but I can’t stand lies. I was in an exceptionally abusive relationship and was brought up with a compulsive liar in my father and so lies trigger me beyond belief. My husband knows and understands this and we are very open and honest with each other.

a few weeks ago he ordered my Christmas card and a present of the same website, the present came but the card didn’t and he emailed the company to say it was showing as delivered on the tracker but it wasn’t here so they sent a replacement and I ended up with 2 of the same Christmas card from him.

it’s my birthday tomorrow and usually he’s very on the ball with cards etc and he said to me oh your card hasn’t arrived. I said did you not just order it with my Christmas card like he usually does and he said yes but it didn’t arrive. I said sure you followed the Christmas card up and he said there was an option to delay delivery (bullshit) and that he panicked and hit that. I knew from his body Language he was lying

admittedly I went very quiet and he asked why I had an attitude. I asked why he lied, it’s not a big deal it’s a birthday card for a non significant birthday so why lie? He responded by getting angry and said I was so annoying and I ruin everything and maintained the card just hadn’t arrived.

i said it’ll be in your order confirmation then and long and behold it wasn’t and he lied. When I got out of the car he thanked me for ruining what was a good night.

he knows it’s not about the card, ffs I’m in my late 20s I don’t care whether I get a card or not, I’m going through a really shit time with some family members right now and my husband is the only person (sad I know) I can rely on and trust and I honestly feel depressed as fuck the night before my birthday because he’s lied to me and he’s pissed off with me.

I used to be the same as you, having also grown up with a compulsive liar. I used to warn people that they needed to be honest with me because I had a pathological response to lies. No matter how brutal, I'd rather have the truth. I don't think they believed me, and I reacted in ways I'm not going to share on here. In each case THEY apologised to me afterwards.

I'm that bit older now, and I have those instances to keep me in check, remind me that people are capable of almost anything when they react from the gut rather than thinking it through first. Instead of spiralling, or sticking around gathering 'evidence' of their dishonesty, doing things that make me feel just as bad in the process, I have now learnt to walk away. In one case I've even managed to maintain a relationship with a dishonest SIL. I'll never trust or truly respect her again, but as far as she's concerned I've let it go. It took me a long time to get here. Not quite so simple when you're married, but somehow you need to find a way to let this go, for your own sake as much as anyone else's.

I have, on this basis, found myself unable to assign you as un / reasonable. You know that your reaction to dishonesty has been distorted, and you know that one day it could ruin what might be an otherwise lovely surprise, so do whatever you can to not deprive yourself of that and put things in perspective. Maybe you can both take something from the situation.

And i can understand that feeling about not wanting to drive. But the equivalent here is making your husband promise to never get in a car again because of your experiences. And that wouldn't be right, or practical. Everybody tells white lies, for various reasons. Some of them are to spare others feelings or make them feel better. It can be a positive thing. If you have kids are you never going to tell them about Santa or the Tooth Fairy? Your mind is fixed on negatives of lies to the exclusion of everything else. You need to discuss this with your therapist

I’m very happy that he’s now your ex. That must have been an excruciating way to live.

Demanding absolute 100% honesty 100% of the time is an incredibly high bar and one no one could possibly reach. By requiring this you are guaranteeing your husband and your relationship will fail. Is that, deep down, what you actually want? So you can leave him and blame him?

When someone says they don't ever lie they are either lying or deluded. Everyone lies, some occasionally others more frequently. Only someone completely lacking any emotional intelligence, empathy or manners could tell the raw truth all the time and even that hugely dysfunctional person would lie if it was convenient to them.

There is a massive difference between minor lies told to spare peoples feelings or to keep the peace or maintain cordial social relations and the sort of manipulative and coercive gaslighting you have experienced in the past.

That you can't see that difference yet is your issue not his and something you need to work through with your psychiatrist.

Agreed. I've got a headache just reading this, and OP digging her heels in. Can't imagine what it must be like to live with.

OP you have a responsibility to deal with your drama, and issues. I suggest you do so.

I’m with you OP. I hate liars and I very very rarely lie myself but it seems that is unusual. I’ve had two different therapists tell me that everyone lies all the time and it isn’t a big deal but I disagree.

To be honest I do see both sides to this.

Telling someone you forgot to get them
a card for their birthday is awkward. Personally I don’t ask people “where’s my card?” because it puts unnecessary pressure, they either get me one or they don’t. I’m not going to beg and if they don’t get me one, I know where I stand.

Yes, he forgot your card - you clocked it immediately, but you say it’s not a big deal so why question it? I wouldn’t have pushed the point, he may have thought you came across as confrontational and panicked and dug a hole for himself. I completely understand that you don’t like lies but I do think you pushed him in a corner a bit. I think sometimes you need to pick your battles. He completely lied to you, you have confirmation of that, it’s your choice how you respond and if this is the end of the relationship. I’m not saying you need to accept this.

but what I will say is be careful about having super high (to the extent of unrealistic) expectations of others, and fighting every battle to get justice. People lie unfortunately, it can be human nature. I don’t think realistically you’re going to find a partner that will never lie. I think it’s important to find a partner that you can communicate well with, sometimes it might involve not sweating the small things for the sake of not wasting your own energy on pointless battles.

He shouldn’t have lied if he knows you can’t stand it.

But it’s happened. So now you need to ask yourself whether you’d rather lose him over it or get over it yourself and move on. Getting angry or upset helps no one.

So you'd rather have a therapist that lies to you?

Thank you, it was.

He ended up trying to do the same with the DC, it was like an obsession in the end.

Hypocritical since he told lies of his own, just as I suspect the OP does because it's human nature to tell white lies.

So a therapist should lie?, sounds healthy

Why would I rather have a therapist that lies to me?

im the same I have been habitually lied to and now have some kind of trauma response everytime I'm told a lie.
however, in this situation it sounds like you really pressed him and he just said a little white lie whilst he got your card in check. He didn't want to look careless or upset you/ make your birthday seem insignificant. Sounds like he wanted to reassure you a card was coming and in the process told a little white lie. You need to drop it.

OP, I get it, I don't really understand lying. However, I am aware that I'm in an unusual position. I assess why the person lied and if they're dealing with anxiety. If he truly is sorry about it and with the understanding no one is perfect, I'd move forwards (with the clear rule now no white lies either).

This is a really good post OP from someone who has been in your position.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Your post really struck a chord with me.

My mum died earlier this year. She wasn't a good mum to me or my siblings. She was selfish, self centred and verbally and physically abusive.

In adult life I was the only one who maintained a relationship with her, not through love or even liking but from fear, obligation and guilt. For the last few years she was frail and needy and a tremendous burden on me. Caring for her and now, sorting out her affairs and her estate, have been a drain on my time and energy for a long time now.

Did I ever tell her any of this? Of course I didn't. By then she was a sad, needy, lonely old lady. When she thanked me for doing things (not often!!) or said she hoped it wasn't an inconvenience I lied through my teeth and said it wasn't a problem, it was no trouble, that it was a pleasure, that I really didn't mind doing it. All massive, stonking, great untruths but to me, making an old lady's last years easier and easing her guilt were more important than telling the truth.

Also sometimes it might be helpful to think of alternative responses.

• He said: oh your card hasn’t arrived.

• You said: did you not just order it with my Christmas card like he usually does

Alternatively, you could have said:

• A: Honestly it’s not a big deal, I’m in my late 20s and don’t want a card as it’s a non-significant birthday.

• B: Oh, that’s a shame

• C: I’d like a card, I don’t mind if it’s late

• D: I’m not happy about that but there’s problems with post this time of year, maybe pop to the shops?

• E: That’s odd because the post seems fine, but I don’t want a card regardless so it’s fine.

etc

Like it doesn’t need to jump straight into suspicion, scepticism etc. Sometimes step back and look at the bigger picture.

I'm not gonna lie to you, you need to take a step back and realise you are being overbearing in your relationship. Checking an email to see if DH had bought a birthday card when it hadn't even got to your birthday?! I would apologise to DH. Tidy.

This is a really good post.

i too hate lies.(and non tell absolute essential truths) there is no room for "white lies"in my head. I understand yur hurt,being triggered etc.
Hopefully he will promtly realise\recognise the significance and be accountable. If its a stupid/not big deal thing it just makes lying worse.
The fact you laid bare your reasoning isnt do him any favours.i would be easier with forgot\fuckt up every time over lies

I agree, it’s a good post. It really highlights why picking your battles selectively, is more for your own peace of mind as opposed to others.

Sometimes people in close relationships tell white lies.

Sometimes how you respond requires some nuance.

I realise that, but what is unusual behaviour is OP continuing to demand evidence that he’d ordered the birthday card instead of just accepting his explanation. She obviously doesn’t trust her husband one bit, even over small and unimportant things, so what else is she demanding he evidence? It sounds like he may be walking on eggshells, this is not a healthy relationship and it’s not because of this white lie.

I disagree with most posters. I hate lying, but have never had an abusive ex. I don't white lie much either re a dress or food.

The comments re op being hard work are offensive. Why didn't Dh just say sorry in all the kerfuffle of the missing Christmas card, I missed / totally forgot about the birthday one. This would have been fine.

Just reading through the posts and comments on the probability of the OP never telling white lies etc, as someone with a brutally honest approach and expectation, I have come to realise that it is pretty uncommon. Most people tell so-called white lies on a regular basis, and I struggle with that. I don't want to hurt people's feelings, but I don't want to disrespect my own values by lying, however 'big' a lie people think it is.

Many people can't take my honesty, but I have learnt to have answers ready that whilst not exactly sugar-coated, are not as honest as what's in my head. So a bad haircut or unflattering outfit turns into "I think I prefer ...., but it's your opinion and how you feel that counts" . The funny thing is that anyone who knows me, knows what it translates to, and inevitably laughs about it, saying "so that means ..... "