Husband’s white lie but knows I can’t hack lying

[Pitypartayfor1]

Let me start by saying I know this is trivial but I can’t stand lies. I was in an exceptionally abusive relationship and was brought up with a compulsive liar in my father and so lies trigger me beyond belief. My husband knows and understands this and we are very open and honest with each other.

a few weeks ago he ordered my Christmas card and a present of the same website, the present came but the card didn’t and he emailed the company to say it was showing as delivered on the tracker but it wasn’t here so they sent a replacement and I ended up with 2 of the same Christmas card from him.

it’s my birthday tomorrow and usually he’s very on the ball with cards etc and he said to me oh your card hasn’t arrived. I said did you not just order it with my Christmas card like he usually does and he said yes but it didn’t arrive. I said sure you followed the Christmas card up and he said there was an option to delay delivery (bullshit) and that he panicked and hit that. I knew from his body Language he was lying

admittedly I went very quiet and he asked why I had an attitude. I asked why he lied, it’s not a big deal it’s a birthday card for a non significant birthday so why lie? He responded by getting angry and said I was so annoying and I ruin everything and maintained the card just hadn’t arrived.

i said it’ll be in your order confirmation then and long and behold it wasn’t and he lied. When I got out of the car he thanked me for ruining what was a good night.

he knows it’s not about the card, ffs I’m in my late 20s I don’t care whether I get a card or not, I’m going through a really shit time with some family members right now and my husband is the only person (sad I know) I can rely on and trust and I honestly feel depressed as fuck the night before my birthday because he’s lied to me and he’s pissed off with me.

People condoning white lies is worrying. Don't you have the communication and empathy skills to phrase things properly?

If a dress doesn't fit your friend you could say all sorts of things: varying in degrees of honesty - that you loved the purple one she wore last year, that it is nice but not quite right, that it's not bad but maybe we could try on another couple. All sorts of things could be said.

I think it’s more that not all lies are malicious or said with purposeful, cruel intent. Also people can unexpectedly lie when in a tricky situation - like a reflex, it can be human nature. People lie to spare feelings for example which may be what happened here. I think looking at things from a bigger picture can be useful.

I remember I caught someone in a lie recently. I’m giving evidence at court to support a prosecution. The police told me that I would get a call from a withheld number from the court, because the person calling doesn’t want to give their personal number out for privacy reasons. When that person called me, they unprompted said their number is withheld because that’s what the police want. It didn’t occur to me to pick holes or be like “hold up, they said this” when the outcome really didn’t impact anything. I said that’s fine and moved on, because it genuinely wasn’t worth my energy to get to the bottom of. That would have been unnecessarily hard work, regardless of how much I hate lies.

Notoriously? Do you know what that actually means? I don’t think you do.

Anyway, it’s a card. He may have got confused and thought he’d ordered it. Maybe he did but there had been a technical issue with the company’s system and the order was somehow cancelled internally. Anything is possible. If you’re going to get this upset over a card, you’re in for a shock when something truly awful happens.

I'm so sorry. That is awful. I hope you have some peace now.

He knows that I can’t handle lies.

This is your problem to deal with, not his. Sort yourself out. You can't expect everyone to stop doing something perfectly normal (white lies are a normal part of social discourse) in order to make you feel better. You need to get some therapeutic help to enable you to live comfortably in reality.

I'm willing to bet quite serious money that people who lie rather than fudge (which is what you're talking about) are probably more intelligent, empathetic and well-liked.

It's not about 'condoning' lies. It's about understanding their role in human communication. The studies of lying, and there are a few, count per DAY. Not year. Per day. Around 40% of people I think, had lied in the last 24 hours.

Excepting people who have some neurodivergence, some kinds of brain injury, cognitive issues of some sort, the vast majority of people tell at least a few lies fairly regularly.

I'm thinking back this week. I've lied to save some feelings, especially around Christmas (presents). I will almost definitely lie to someone who has invited us for NYE (they have a weird creepy friend I won't be in a room with - we will be 'busy'). I said I'd stretch to my running coach, I will not stretch. She knows this as well as I do I've lied at work 'oh that happens to us all' to save feelings. I don't think any of these make me a bad person. They do save relationships.

Oh and people lie on here to keep anonymous. Good intentions.

I can’t bear feeling lied to and have similar issues to op because of childhood abuse. I’ve married a man who loves my resulting obsession with being as accurate as possible. Most of science is hypothesis, for example, but people tend to say it as fact. Part of the reason he loves that about me is because his own childhood was abusive in a different way and he was punish for telling the truth if it wasn’t palatable to his parents. In the early years we got trapped into this dynamic where I’d be anxious, quiz him, he’d panic and say what he wanted to be true rather than what was true. I sense and seize on the lie and the fact he lied would be so much bigger to me than the initial situation. How can I trust him when he lies so unnecessarily. I got counselling (I needed a lot) and he got some (only needed a little) too.

It still happens but rarely and when it does I acknowledge to myself that I’ve just panicked him and he’s just panicked me - and he usually has already said can I scrub that last sentence and try again.

I completely agree with you OP that it’s perfectly reasonable to expect to your partner to be honest especially given your trigger, that being said in this scenario context completely matters though.

The above is very likely what happened and though it can be a bit frustrating given this has triggered past trauma for you, it would be unreasonable to make this bigger then it needs to be for a healthy relationship. If you married this man and he so far has shown to be an exemplary character when it comes to lying, there is no need to escalate and imagine this to be bigger then it needs to be. He should not be held at the same tally as your previous partner or parent cause that’s not fair!!

This should not snowball if you just calmly without recriminations have a chat with him and explain how this has made you feel, and your fears about it becoming an issue in the future. You are owed an apology but he is as well because there was no ill intent in this scenario. No one is infallible.

This. 👏🏽 Is. 👏🏽 Fixable.👏🏽

Everyone sucks here if they can’t just have a cup a tea (or drink of your preferred choice) and have a serious chat to reaffirm/readjust relational boundaries!

well you would(bet)..given that in your head excuses your lies. Besides the op stated her background/reasoning with having issues. Intelligent?empathathetic.the 1st would suggest capable of not fucking up ordering a card, the second leans to understanding individual feelings n a level you dont hurt them.together would surely equate to-honesty best policy?
well liked gobshites is awful

All: Yabu!

OP: no I am not!!

OP - your husband sounds scared of your overreactions so prob lied to not get in trouble - i feel for him a bit. Sounds like an in-law of mine who got the wrong shade of blue for a card and he was shit scared, they are divorced now. You need to rethink this whole thing, good luck.

So i presume couples who compromise work best, you say have a serious chat is that a one sided one?

What would the op have to change or does it only work one way?

@tolerable I read your reply and I thought a little experiment is in order. Two responses. One dishonest but fairly nice. One brutally honest.

What I would say normally: I disagree. I think that lying does grease the wheels of human interaction and if you do it sometimes, infrequently, with an eye on the other person's feelings, I don't think it makes you bad. But I take your point.

But if I was being really honest (please MNHQ understand that this personal attack is in the spirit of the thread): Given the unintelligibility of your reply, I think my case is made about intelligence.

You'd better resume those sessions with the psychiatrist to fix your mental health. You are being totally unreasonable here.

--- wrong post

@MrsTerryPratchett

Have you never told friend that you find mr creepy a bit odd, or he makes you feel a bit uncomfortable or some sort of similar thing/phrasing? Why not?

Running coach knows you don't stretch.

At work you could've commiserated, without implying you, and others do this thing, when you don't.

@MrsTerryPratchett tbh-(ha!) your "dishonest but fairly nice" was far more palatable and possibly also reasonable than your intial response.
(please MNHQ,i havent felt personally attacked/easy bout it) My reply (isat a word ?wow) unintelligability.!....ok- was your case indctive of superior intelligence, heavily condesending and under the illusion you are entirely right? cos.if you didni know what i sid you vwouldni have touched it.probli

Thanks for not shopping me to the rozzers @tolerable

no bother-we dont need to agree. chat is as chat does.😂

Dont be surprised if your single soon. You sound ungracious and just plain exhausting. Let things slide.

I feel very sorry for your DH. People tell white lies all the time, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. I'm sorry you grew up with a lying father, but your attitude is very unreasonable.

Seriously, why get so het up about a card?

Poor bloke.

tolerable is walking down the street at night.

She hears some shouting and a terrified scream.

A terrified looking woman appears - "help, there's a man trying to kill me!" and the woman proceeds to hide behind a wall.

Seconds later, an angry looking man appears, and he appears to be holding a weapon.

"Have you seen a woman come past?" the man demands.

"Yes, she's hiding behind that wall", says tolerable, pointing.

tolerable does call the police but, by the time they arrive, the woman is dead.

Still, tolerable tells herself, at least she did the morally correct thing and did not tell a lie.

A lie is a lie.
I also have trauma from a compulsive liar and now have very low tolerance.

I don't lie ever if I can help it (it's a bit of a running joke with friends and family). He could have told you the truth.

A lie to say someone's hair looks good is sometimes necessary (for example) ...

But he could have easily told you the truth and said he had been busy but would get a card ASAP.

I find some people lie just to avoid an awkward conversation or to make themselves look good and to me it just feels a bit cowardly and lazy.

My control-freak detection radar is ringing off the scale. Pretty typical stuff.

Me to Partner: I walked into town, had a browse of the shops, stopped for a quick coffee.
Partner after fishing for details: I saw the receipt. There's two drinks. Why lie? Are you hiding something?
Me: Oh yeah, I spilled most of the first coffee, so I got another one.
Partner: I find it hard to believe you just forgot to mention that. I don't care about how many coffees you had, It just makes me very concerned that you can't be honest with me. And blah, blah, blah (whilst my alarm bells start blaring) ...

Only OP will know if it's a malicious need to be fully in charge of everything and everyone or a sort of OCD tick. I doubt it makes a jot of difference to those on the receiving end though.

He is clearly suited to this unbearable environment (I wouldn't last a week!) so it's probably best to release the pressure grip a little before a good thing goes bust.

We aren't blank slates when we enter a relationship - our cumulative experiences with family, friends and previous partners will have a deeper effect on things like how/whether we lie than a current partner.

If your husband previously grew up with (e.g) strict, controlling or hyperemotional parents, or had a past of being shamed or bullied for small slip ups or misdeeds then they're going to also be more likely to feel the need to lie to cover themselves in small scale scenarios like you described.

If you've grown up in an environment where telling the truth (even nicely) can land you in trouble or cause emotional distress then you'll have learnt that a few white lies are either necessary or a lesser evil.

I'd say the posters who think you can go through life never having the compulsion to lie or giving in to that compulsion over small matters have lived pretty blessed lives overall. I wouldn't dare tell my mother the truth over most matters, but I wish I could. Unfortunately this also bleeds into every day life although I'm generally honest and my friends have told me they perceive me as candid and upfront.

In OP's scenario it wasn't even a big white lie to begin with, just a half truth- the card hasn't arrived yet = perhaps he was planning to pick up a card at the shops in the morning by which case it "arrives" at the moment of purchase. But because OP kept pressing the matter, husband felt pushed to commit to a narrative that she supplied (where is the card you ordered online- something he implied but never originally stated).

I don't think you can live a happy marriage if you feel like you might be interrogated at any given moment. It places psychological pressure on your partner and can make them act in haste in a manner they'd not otherwise have taken - did you need to press him on the card? Could you not have just outright said "I know you didn't order my birthday card this year because it didn't arrive with the Christmas card, but it's ok because I know you are usually on the ball with this" rather than turning it into a cat and mouse game? If you want him to be fully honest then you need to create an environment where he feels relaxes and safe to be upfront. Communication goes both ways