To ask why women would be uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms

[Chumssss]

Discussion with my DH tonight about this. Am I right in thinking that unisex bathrooms are not great?

Depends on the unisex toilet, for me.

If it's taking a typical single sex one, which in many establishments tend to be put out of the way in left over corner spaces that makes it difficult to get help if there is an issue, the layout means there are areas more secluded, and - particularly if it's been switched from single sex to mixed sex, there is an expectation of it being single sex that can make people feel more vulnerable when it's not.

If someone makes a conscious effort in how it's set up, knowing the increase in risk and actively mitigating it, ensuring it's opens onto a main area where it's easy to get help, ensure all stalls are self contained with sinks and such within them and large enough for mobility devices or pushchairs to reduce feeling and being exposed, and it's clearly set out to ensure there aren't secluded areas in the area, then actual and perceived threats can be lowered and so feeling less vulnerable.

Most of the ones I've seen the former, even in newly built public spaces which I find can be much worse for the 'we'll shove the loos in this random janky corner, down a weird corridor away from everything' meaning a high risk if there is any issues that it'll take longer to get help compared to adjusting old buildings, which have much more reason for less safe toilets on being limited on space to expand or create self-contained stalls to but far more often, but the public toilets are on the main routes and generally don't have the weird internal layouts trying to maximise space so I'm far less likely to have the feeling that if something were to happen, I could be without help for a long time. It's very frustrating for me how many new buildings make toilets an afterthought, and as such make them much riskier -- and if they then want to throw mixed sex on top of that, that just raises the risks.

Women use toilets to clean up after menstrual flooding. Some 600 women miscarry in the UK every day, some of them in a public toilet. So what if men want to pee with us? We don't have to be cool with it.

It’s the people that shrug and say ‘what’s the problem’ that are the problem. They don’t want to listen.

Don’t feel unsafe, but men’s toilets are generally less clean. I think it feels nicer if I know it’s just a women’s toilet. DS who’s just 8 already refuses going to women’s toilets as he feels shy, so guess some boys/men feel the same.

A bathroom can be a place of vulnerability.

There are lockable cubicles. A man could use his physical advantage to shove a woman inside one, lock the door & assault her.

Imagine you enter a cubicle, go to lower your underwear to pee/insert tampon, and someone in the next cubicle puts a phone camera under the partition.

The only acceptable unisex toilet provision has cubicles with sinks inside & doors & walls right to the floor/ceiling, accessed directly off a public space.

And thats before you get on to how men leave bathrooms. I cleaned them in various pubs and leisure facilities i worked in and men leave them in a fucking disgusting state compared to women - piss & stains everywhere, disgusting smells, dirty paper left on the floor etc, its unspeakable - no wonder women don't want to share!

I have no issue if they are single toilets. Our local library has row of doors in a corridor and each toilet is in its own room.

Disgusting, creepy, not needed
a man cleaner is ok, people are used to them and that is different

We have unisex toilets at work and they are disgusting. Pee on the seat, skidmarks, just disgusting. Female toilets have never been this bad. I also hate the fact I’m forced into close quarters with male colleagues. Women generally are doing more intimate things in a toilet; I just feel uncomfortable changing a tampon etc knowing there’s a bloke using the cubicle next door.

I think we have to normalise men not behaving like feral animals in public toilets - weeing everywhere and generally leaving a mess.
Who has to do this? Women? Women aren't support humans for men or there to tell men to clean up after themselves...

This. Men’s toilets are always more dirty than women’s toilets. The reason is that a lot of men piss on the seat, the floor, anywhere really. I find it utterly disgusting and resent having to roll up the bottoms of my trousers and clean the seat in order to pee.

Because women need their own spaces, not just when we are more vulnerable and in a state of undress (and at risk of voyeurs) but because there is greater risk of assault, sexual or otherwise, behind closed doors. Those born male will always have a physical advantage, no matter how hard we fight back.

Women’s loos are also places where women can escape and find female solidarity - we’ve all seen a woman being mopped up by other women, found a place away from a man who is hassling us on a dance floor or whatever.

Women’s spaces are also not there to offer validation to those men who think they are women. We are not here to validate men’s false beliefs or fetishes.

Women need their own spaces and men - of whatever identity - need to keep out.

Our local lesiure centre have decided all toilets, changing rooms and showers are now unisex, lots of women including myself have cancelled their membership and joining the next one in town, also lots of availability now in their swimming lessons now they've made this change.

I've been in 'gender neutral' toilets which were previously women's loos. The amount of men peeing in cubicles without closing and locking the door was shocking. As expressed above, most of them couldn't aim properly, and women had to wait in even longer than usual in queues due to them being there.

That's my take before we even talk about the safety aspect. Just grim.

Yup.

Both scenarios that you describe have happened in the east of Scotland. Attempted rape in a toilet cubicle and a camera set up by a voyeur in a school toilet.

Whenever you go to the toilet in a small cafe/restaurant where there's only one toilet, it's unisex.
When your friend goes to the toilet in your house, it's unisex.

Went to a music evening in a Minster recently where all the toilets are now , floor to ceiling with basin in, one long row with entrance at one end and exit at the other. What was hilarious was all the confused men pushing past to look for urinals and being sent back to the end of the queue. They did not like having to stand in line at all.

In principle though, there is a high yuk factor. After the seat and the floor, consider how many men exit a toilet while out without washing their hands.

My worst experience in a unisex cubicle toilet facility was at a theatre. I rushed into the toilet a few minutes before the act was about to start. At the same time as I was leaving a man did the same. He prepared himself as he no doubt did before going into male only toilets. Needless to say I was shocked when he headed towards me with his trousers undone removing his appendage before entering the cubicle.

As well as the hygiene/smell issues and the vulnerability aspect, I think there's also a culture of the ladies toilets being a bit of a safe haven. I can't count the amount of times I've used the ladies toilets to have a little cry, a heart to heart with a friend, take a breather, fix my make up, put deodorant on, pull my tights up, adjust my clothing etc. None of which I would feel comfortable doing with men present.

Oh, stop being ridiculous. In your own home, you're not sharing with strangers.

I was assaulted in a mixed sex facility. They’re not safe for women. They’re also smellier and dirtier and less dignity.

Yes this

if they're single room, lockable bathrooms, i don't care.. i used disabled toilets (yes i'm disabled) and they're unisex.

Public loos with multiple stalls i am uncomfortable with.. it's not that i mind sharing a bathroom, but i attend an event that has male, female and unisex public loos and well.. the unisex and male toilets are constantly filthy, and i have to say, most years there are complaints, to the point the organisers have to tell people to remember to flush and leave the loo how they'd like to find it.

Strangely enough you don't tend to get the same issue with disabled toilets.. people are generally a bit more considerate about leaving them tidy.

An this

It's the penises. That's the problem

What about the first example I gave?