To ask why women would be uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms

[Chumssss]

Discussion with my DH tonight about this. Am I right in thinking that unisex bathrooms are not great?

Exactly. This seems to have been forgotten entirely, along with basic history about the fight for women's rights, of which separate facilities and services in certain circumstances (eg toilets, changing areas, dormitories, hospital wards, prisons, rape crisis centres, the right to same sex care for intimate medical services/checks etc) was one example. Evidence of a worryingly complacency that rights are set in stone and that changes are always "forward progress", it seems to me.

The Chesterton's Fence principle applies here. Before you remove something (like a fence that has been put in place, or a boundary) in the name of supposed "progress", it's sensible to understand why it was put up in the first place.

So to repeat this entirely pertinent question, why were separate facilities for women and girls fought for historically? Why are developing nations still fighting for them as a women's human rights issue? And yes, to pick up on what others have said, what is the advantage or benefit to WOMEN & GIRLS of mixed sex facilities exactly and the removal of single sex facilities? What is the benefit to the rest of society? Who does it benefit the most?

Women chatting at the sink whilst washing their hands are not stopping other women from getting into the cubicles.

Police CCTV appeal over alleged rape in pub bathroom www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4xp7y1geno

Apparently the men's and women's loos were close together. So mot unisex but it still happened.

It would feel more dangerous if all men were allowed in rather than one going in on their own.

This man has since been arrested once the image was shared nationwide rather than just Southport. From Carlisle apparently.

Ask who benefits? Doesn't feel like women.

It isn't, no.

And let's not forget, women and girls weren't even asked how WE felt about it before mixed sex toilets were imposed all over the country. I appreciate some women are busy saying how much they "don't mind" and "don't see the problem" but they don't consent for everyone else, and I'd question how easily it was assumed that no other women minded and didn't even need to be asked - and if they did mind they could expect to be shamed as bigoted, prudish witches. Not exactly democratic or reasonable, is it? And says a lot about how women are viewed. We're fine as long as we're "good girls", do what the guys want and approve of, and don't push back or ask for anything for ourselves. But evil witches if we don't comply. Curious as to whether we think any other demographic would get treated that way with regard to something they'd fought for historically.

It stinks, in my view. As much as your average urinal.

Only two days ago there was a thread complaining that disabled toilets aren't being kept for the disabled they're being given away to everyone else is society for baby change and if they just can't be bothered to queue after the disabled historically fought for accessible facilities.

This isn't a woman specific phenomenon. Also, nobody asked men to vote on whether they wanted unisex toilets, why would a vote be held for such a thing? Not every decision or policy has to benefit women, it's ok for things to benefit other groups in society too. And I say that as a woman. As long as it doesn't harm women then it's fine. I don't believe it does harm women because all the headlines of assaults and voyeurism in the news recently have been in women's bathrooms so the woman picture on the door doesn't keep predators out anyway.

@AngelAva

I don't believe it does harm women because all the headlines of assaults and voyeurism in the news recently have been in women's bathrooms so the woman picture on the door doesn't keep predators out anyway.

fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger/

You're wrong.

Andrew Gilligan wrote about this in The Times in 20188_. Through a freedom of information request, he found that the vast majority – just under 90 per cent – of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism or harassment reported at leisure centres and public swimming pools took place in unisex facilities. Of these, sexual attacks made up 67 per cent.
There were 134 reports of sexual assault in changing rooms over the two year period 2017 to 2018. Of these, 120 took place in gender-neutral changing rooms compared to just 14 in single-sex changing areas.
A further 46 sexual assault allegations were made about attacks in other areas such as in the pool, in a sports hall or corridors. These are not included in the percentages.

@AngelAva

Not every decision or policy has to benefit women, it's ok for things to benefit other groups in society too

Leaving aside for now that you are wrong that the switch to unisex toilets does not make things worse for women and taking your argument on its own, which "other groups in society" do unisex toilets actually benefit?

I can give you too many examples of sexual assaults and deaths in unisex toilet cubicles. If you Google you will find that lots happen in disabled toilets too. I warn you though - it is very depressing reading.

What is more likely to keep predators out is the risk of being caught.

part of my role at a previous employment was to assess and report on the state of common areas (which mainly meant bathrooms) in public places/shops/restaurants/cafes/pubs/cinemas etc. This meant going into cubicles and checking everything was working/not broken/ well provisioned etc. One more than one occasion I refused to even enter the cubicles in the men’s because they were so filthy and piss soaked. Unisex loos were invariably in a similar state and were generally sketchy. I will only ever use single sex women’s bathrooms now when I’m out.

It does harm female people to remove a single sex provision. There are people on this thread stating how they are harmed by this change.

What is unusual in the recent case of the poor woman who got attacked in Southport is that they had good cctv images and led a nationwide campaign that caught the man and that it was reported in the first place.

Attatched are the figures, just from the Metropolitian police area, that were reported by victims. Only a few perpetrators were ever charged. I do not believe this figure includes numbers for other establishments like schools and possibly offices. Do you think the opportunity goes up or down for perpetrators in floor to ceiling unisex cubicles?

I don't particularly want to use a toilet if some bloke has just pissed on the seat.

It DOES harm women though.

Which is one of the BIG reasons they were fought for in the first place, wasn't it? And why they are still fought for as a women's human rights issue elsewhere in the world.

That's the entire point. Guess you missed that.

And of course it's customary to at least ask the people who will be most impacted before you decide to unilaterally REMOVE a right that they've had for years and that people expect. In this case for over a century. Failing to do so is ignorant, authoritarian and wholly non-democratic.

Yes, agree. This was exactly the problem we had in Wagamama.

I've worked in a building with unisex toilets since 2007. Each cubicle has doors and walls that go down to the floor and a washbasin. Half of them are accessible to people with disabilities.

They're absolutely fine, and far cleaner than the women-only toilets in the place where I used to work.

@LakieLady they are more dangerous for anyone one that is medically vulnerable and for women and children - two groups that are more likely to be assaulted. They are more difficult to clean and less hygienic.

This

The ones at my work which are mixed are just a bit grim - pubes in the sink, wee on the seat, so I avoid them.
I don’t feel safe in them in bars and clubs at night particularly when set back and avoid places with mixed toilets in the evening. It’s coming out of the loo and jumping cos there is a man stood there - makes me feel vulnerable.

Again, I do think often those who are saying how fine they are with it appear to be forgetting that they aren't able to give consent on behalf of the very many women and girls who aren't fine with it at all, perhaps have different experiences from themselves, didn't consent, know that any impacts on them weren't even considered, and weren't ever asked.

Wholesale removing other women and girls' right to boundaries and privacy, even though they're now loudly saying no, because you don't personally feel you need the same is not a minor issue.

It's so fucking depressing that in 2025 women are still having to defend wanting to retain single sex spaces, and the 'I'm fine with it so everyone else should be' brigade don't seem to be able to grasp that you cant give consent away on behalf of those who aren't.

Geez.

It’s so weird. It’s as if people think this if we behave as IF male violence and misogyny doesn’t exist, it’ll just cease to exist. Let’s get rid of patriarchy and misogyny, and then start having same sex bathrooms as the norm. Having same sex bathrooms won’t help gender equality.

I don't like unisex where there are individual cubicles and communal sinks etc. That said, I don't mind communal changing villages in leisure centres, but the loos are single sex in my local centre.

But individual loos like the generally available accessible loos in small cafes and the like are fine (and are generally all you get anyway).

As for womens loos being messy, I learnt yesterday (due to overhearing a conversation in the next cubicle) that that is down to mothers taking their kids into the loos with them when they are desperate - they miss the loo because they are in such a hurry and the mothers don't clean up after them!

I don't want to use a toilet if anyone has. It's by no means confined to men.