To ask why women would be uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms

[Chumssss]

Discussion with my DH tonight about this. Am I right in thinking that unisex bathrooms are not great?

Because unisex toilets stink. Without exception in my experience.

@Hoppinggreen

Where have you read that mostly men want unisex toilets?

I’m a woman. I don’t want unisex toilets I just don’t care about them. The places I have been that have unisex toilets the set-up made sense either:

1. Small cafes with exactly one toilet so it was necessarily unisex

2. Stand alone units with toilet, sink and dryer inside

3. Sex segregated toilets (room full of cubicles for the ladies) but the sink area was open and shared. Experienced a few times in bars and clubs.

I have just never really cared in any of these situations and see no reason to start caring.

Excuse me, @ArcheryAnnie, but surely you're not suggesting that a woman lives alone will always a separate bathroom for men, to avoid a unisex one? In my experience, even a single woman may be visited by a male friend, a male cousin, a father, or a repair man who may need a bathroom.

No, I do not believe that ArcheryAnnie wrote that at all, otherwise she would have typed that or a very close resemblance to that.

I've cleaned toilets in the past. The womens was normally far dirtier than the mens. So many women must hover and miss the bowl entirely resulting in pee down the outside of the bowl and on the seat. San (used) pro products and their wrappings just chucked on the floor. Makeup on counters. etc etc.

I'd suggest the best set up would be urinals for men seperate from the cubicles and unisex floor to ceiling cubicles with hand wash facility within. Then only men going for a crap would have reason to be in there.

I always laugh at these threads where some woman comments on chatting with her friends in the loo. You aren't at school any more, get a move on there is a queue.

I worked in an office where the men routinely used the women’s toilets… they were absolutely revolting. The women as a consequence had to go out and use the guest loos by the reception area… not ideal but a better alternative!

A pub I used to go to the quiz at regularly made their loos unisex… not a single bloke ever bothered shutting the cubicle door when they were having a piss, so you had to walk past a parade of bare arses to find a cubicle that was actually empty.

We have unisex loos at work and some female/male loos. The unisex loos and the male loos are awful, wee on the floor, shit stains, wee all over the seat which I accidentally sit on or have to clean off before sitting down. Less handwashing so dirty door handles. Just gross. Thankfully womens loos are consistently cleaner, more handwashing too. I occasionally might find a blocked womens toilet but it’s pretty rare.

Secondly it’s intimidating and unsafe being in a mixed sex loo. Of course most sexual assaults occur in mixed sex environments and not women’s single sex environments which are much much safer.

Quite.

this is a great way to reframe the discussion. How do mixed sex toilets benefit women?

@Boredlass fortunately not seen a random penis but I have definitely see open cubicles with men peeing with door open.

@BlueLurker

The BA lounge loos in Heathrow T5 have all been made neutral this year, it has helped no end with queues - previously either the men’s or women’s usually had mega queues (but no rhyme or reason for which it was at any moment), but now supply much more closely matches demand

I complained to BA about this change. I don’t like it and think it’s unnecessary (I have not experienced the mega queues you reference). The generally grimness of shared facilities is offset by the fact that they are cleaned after every use but you can definitely tell it’s a mixed sex cubicle.

BA apologised and gave me a ton of air miles. Every time I fly I will make the same complaint.

Although I can see the majority of women here have the opposite experience to this, If women’s toilets are normally far dirtier than the men’s, why would a man want to use shared spaces with them?

In terms of having a chat in the toilet it really shows how little empathy and understanding you have for women. Toilets have been a place where I’ve supported friends through breakups, baby loss and sexual assault - and I really don’t think that’s an unusual thing for women. We use it as a place to breakaway from the crowd when something has happened and we need advice.

I’ve used women’s toilets as a place to hide from a predatory man. That flimsy sign was enough to scare off the man because he knew there was a likelihood of other women in there. But what if he’d followed me into one of those single, fully enclosed cubicles? What would I have done?

Of course everyones experience is different. Believe me I have no wish to share toilets. But no, using it for having a talk about breakups and other serious experiences, is just ridiculous.

Although I can understand using it to escape potential threat.

It’s not ridiculous. The ladies loos have been a space to talk to other ladies since forever. I’ve got friends now I first met in the ladies at a gig of a club and we bonded there.

It’s an experience many women share. I’m nearly 60 and I still chat to other ladies in the loos. It’s not a ‘being at school’ thing, it’s many women’s lived experience

So when theres a line of ladies complaining of the queue at the ladies, you consider it ok to stop in there to have a chat? Crazy!

Nonsense. The queue for the cubicles.

You might think it’s crazy but many women as you can see share the experience since the dawn of time

Do you not understand why those conversations might be happening there? Sometimes it’s the only time they’ll see that friend and doesn’t want to talk about private details with the group. Sometimes their abuser is sitting right next to them and it’s their own way to safety.

It’s clear you’ve never actually used women’s toilets if you think chatting by the sinks is getting in the way of the queue for the cubicles in all of these experiences. This is going to be a major shock for you but some women’s toilets in some of the clubs I’ve been in have even had sofas!

Tell that to my sons - since getting older and having to use the mens, they hate it - smelly, broken, wee everywhere, no loo roll - they'd much prefer to be back in the ladies.

I hate the idea. I wouldn't want to be inches away from a man in a cubicle and certainly wouldn't be asking one to post toilet paper under the wall. And where is the safe space then for abused women wanting to escape their date? No.
NB I'm not at all against men, but I don't want to share intimate spaces with a stranger.

I have cleaned the toilets in a pub before and I don’t believe that the female toilets were anywhere near as bad as the male toilets.

Has there been a significant change in toilet habits that people now say that female toilets are worse? Or is it the pee on the seats issue that happens in female toilets vs the male toilets that is being said to make it worse?

I have had this type of conversation with a friend. One that is very important to their health and safety that could only occur when we could go to the loos together to be away from partners.

It is an important social dynamic.

The BA lounge loos in Heathrow T5 have all been made neutral this year...

I take it BA don't want Muslim or Orthodox Jewish women to use their lounge then. Isn't that discrimination on the basis of religion?

Blimey every day is a school day!

I get stage fright in quiet toilets, I think it would be way worse with a male colleague hearing every sound.

Cleaning is always worse with floor to ceiling cubicles as you can’t use a mop from the outside. As a cleaner you have to go into the cubicle and close the door to clean. If excrement is on the floor or partitions (I have cleaned vomit, blood, urine and poo off) you can’t swill it down by throwing bleach and water as the mix accumulates at the edges, rather than flowing through the gap. Unless you have mechanical ventilation, the smells are concentrated inside the cubicle. Airborne diseases and smells are concentrated in there as a results. Science has proven they are less clean, there’s been research done I can link to if you need.

Then there’s the fact that everyone is at danger if they collapse in a toilet and can’t be seen to be rescued. And that assaults, drug taking and self harm are more likely to happen in private.

In reality, the floor to ceiling cubicles are a disaster for health and safety.

I really must get one of those UV torches sold for spotting pet urine and keep it in my bag for use in public toilets.

I'm sure the results in unisex versus women's toilets would be most interesting.

Why did women originally have, and need, separate toilet facilities? Those reasons have not gone way. The fact that throughout the developing world the right for women to have separate toilet facilities is still being fought for should tell you something.