To think my sister wouldn’t steal from my mum?

[MuggyMcMuffin]

My mum called me this evening in a state. She’s an older lady who keeps envelopes of money in her house and knows the exact spots for each envelope. She usually withdraws money from her bank and then shares it across the envelopes. This evening, she went to add some money to a certain envelope only to find that the envelope was gone. It had around £2.2k in. I went round to check for her and it’s definitely not there. She last added money to it 2 weeks ago.

Mum had told me that years ago, my sister had stolen from her on 3 occasions. She has suspicions that my sister has stolen the envelope. My sister is often at mums house before going to work.

AIBU to think my sister wouldn’t do this?!

Yes I totally agree with this.

It's daft to keep large sums of money in the house, practically asking for an issue. Dsis may or may not have taken the money, the simple remedy is not to have big cash envelopes lying around.

To be honest while I feel a bit sorry for the DM, she has brought this on herself through her actions.

What’s bonkers is the amount of apologists for the thieving sister and victim blaming an elderly woman! It is very normal for older people to keep money in envelopes in the house - this is not free rein for trusted family members to steal it. The sister has FORM for stealing from their mum on 3 occasions - therefore it is completely reasonable to suspect she has been thieving again. Absolutely disgusting to be an apologist for such low life behaviour and ageist to suggest that OP’s mums account cannot be trusted due to her age. We do not know for sure what happened to the money, but it is completely logical to be suspicious of the sister. As upsetting as that is for the OP.

I've been dealing with this for nearly 15 years with an elderly relative of mine.

It was dementia, through and through, although it has taken 14 of those years to finally get a formal diagnosis. Let me tell you, it becomes absolutely exhausting.

Please, for the sake of everything holy, get your Mum to draw up a Lasting Power of Attorney appointing you for financial and property matters as soon as possible. You do NOT want to be in a situation where she's drawing thousands out in cash and hiding it around the place but unable to remember where she's hidden it for safekeeping. You really, really don't.

@Plastictrees " Apologists"? Get a grip. There is ZERO EVIDENCE that the sister is guilty. ZERO. There may be a suspicion based on something that happened a lifetime ago, but that's all. You can't just accuse people on the basis of nothing. That's exactly why keeping large amounts of cash is a stupid thing to do.

LMAO at all you people shrieking about "form" as a though you're characters on some chavvy, gritty police drama and not posters on a parenting forum.

A very difficult and complex situation OP

I think that the first thing I would do is to make a forensic search of the whole house, including the places where you think she could not have put the envelopes ( the voice of experience!) You literally have to search everything e.g. between towels in linen cupboard, biscuit tin, sewing box, saucepan drawer, freezer.
Sit and have a quiet think about your mother and her behaviour. You say it hasn't changed but the changes can be imperceptible to those closest. Someone who has not seen her for months might notice straightaway. Think not just about money but how she deals with other things.
The safe is a good idea but she may well give your sister the code.
Gather together any remaining envelopes and suggest that she only has two envelopes , one for monetary gifts and the other for emergencies. Agree on the amount and put a a piece of paper in each, asking her to note when/if she takes money out of puts some in. All excess money should be put in a bank account.
Consider Power of Attorney. You could say to her that it is not needed now but could be useful to be put in place just to ensure that it is there in case of health problems in the future.
Not sure about cameras.
Express your 'concerns' to your sister under the guise of money going missing and you do not know how it has happened: visitors, tradespeople, etc.

The fact you’d use the term ‘chavvy’ tells me everything I need to know about your level of intellect.

Past behaviour is indicative of future behaviour - the thieving sister has stolen THREE times from her own mother already. Your standards are clearly in the gutter. I won’t be engaging with you any further. ‘LMAO’.

My level of intellect is such that I don't accuse people of serious crimes with no evidential basis. We can't say the same about you.

I've never heard any "gritty police dramas" use the word "form". It's invariably "previous".

Mind you, I don't watch the "chavvy" ones, so maybe that's the difference. I'll have to take your word for it. 😉

I thought you were going to say there were a few tenners in an envelope, not over £2k! And there are more of these envelopes. That’s just bonkers and I can’t see why your Mum needs that kind of money in the house.

An accident - whether by theft or loss - waiting to happen.

@Plastictrees , if you said you "won't engage" then don't. Reacting with a laugh emoji is engaging; I would expect someone of your fine level of intellect to realise that. It's absolutely laughable that someone would talk about intellect whilst joining in an internet pile-on with no evidential basis.

Oh, it happens. Friend's mother had died and friend asked for help to sort through her mother's things. We knew she had a couple of envelopes with money for bills and emergencies. Fine. It only came to about £500.

However, more and more envelopes came to light, tucked away in weird places eg. in plant pots, in a packet of seemingly unopened tea towels.
The afternoon ended with my friend and I sitting opposite each other counting piles of money like a couple of bank tellers. £16,500!!! It was breathtaking and quite upsetting for my friend as, when friend had had a short period of fairly minor financial difficulties ( about £750), mother had refused to help citing that she was broke herself!
My own mother managed to accumulate about £1000 in various envelopes around the house but she had increasing dementia over several years and had forgotten where she had put things. My late father had several banknotes sewn into the lining of his coat but he had been a prisoner of war and it affected much of his life. They were both pensioners but lived frugally.
The golden rule is : one envelope is fine, two well ok, more than two ...forensic search for the rest! Many very elderly people simply do not trust banks.

Get help, @Plastictrees .

Then really it's her own fault. You can't prove it either way and neither can she so she'll just have to suck it up. Or stop allowing anyone into her home. Or the obvious decision is to stop drawing cash out and dotting it around the house.

Why do you think your sister wouldn’t do this if she already has form?

Tell her you’ve called the police and gauge
her reaction.

I feel for you op I and am going through something similar with my own dsis and dm on a much bigger scale and it's heartbreaking opg are investigating and adult social services and police are involved family members stealing from elderly parents is more common than you think

Well yes this. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ... it's a duck.

If Dsis was an inveterate thief I suspect OP would already have known about it. It depends very much on what these three incidents were, for all we know she could have raided her DMs wallet a few times as a teenager, which is of course wrong but doesn't mean she is definitely the culprit now. If indeed the money was in fact stolen.

Exactly. It is perfectly reasonable to suspect the sister.

I hope the OP has managed to get some clarity.

Might you need to consider dementia creeping in?
Commonly it starts with just some episodes of forgetfulness then blaming others for taking or moving stuff.
The over focus on money and counting it could be a symptom too.

Has she always been paranoid about putting money in the bank or just in the past few years?

Does your mother take any medications? Like sleeping tablets? As they can cause forgetting as well.

No-one would be stupid enough to take a full envelope off her, they'd probably just do something less obvious like take something from each envelope...

You'd need to search your Mum's house thoroughly before accusing your sister.

@MuggyMcMuffin May I ask about the history of stealing with your sister?

Is this something you have always known about, from years ago or even when it happened?
Do you know for certain that it actually happened?
Is it something that your mum has recently (last year or so) disclosed to you?
Is it something that was only disclosed with news of the missing money (i.e. last couple of days)?

You should be able to answer these without recourse to your mum or your sister, and I suspect the answer will help focus here.

If knowledge of your sister's stealing is recent news to you, please, please read this page. It will be very difficult for you, but see if there is anything familiar.

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/about-dementia/symptoms-and-diagnosis/delusions