To think my sister wouldn’t steal from my mum?

[MuggyMcMuffin]

My mum called me this evening in a state. She’s an older lady who keeps envelopes of money in her house and knows the exact spots for each envelope. She usually withdraws money from her bank and then shares it across the envelopes. This evening, she went to add some money to a certain envelope only to find that the envelope was gone. It had around £2.2k in. I went round to check for her and it’s definitely not there. She last added money to it 2 weeks ago.

Mum had told me that years ago, my sister had stolen from her on 3 occasions. She has suspicions that my sister has stolen the envelope. My sister is often at mums house before going to work.

AIBU to think my sister wouldn’t do this?!

Sadly, people steal from their older family members all the time. I used to work in estate settlements at a brokerage firm and I was appalled at how often family members would attempt to steal money from their parents' or grandparents' accounts. People suck.

If your mum wants to stick with envelopes could she get a small safe and then get it drilled into the floor so it can’t be removed and put the envelopes in the safe

it’s very easy to do this you just need to hair sure you have long screw to drill it in
I have a safe that’s fixed to my floor and I keep cash / passports in

or get a a slightly bigger safe and put it on a wardrobe - cover it up with a blanket so your sister won’t know where it is

your sister is hardly going to steal a heavy safe

don’t put the code as date of both though
maybe last 4 digits of your mums mobile number or even yours something that’s easy to remember but something your sister won’t think of
with most safes it’s ⭐️and then the 4 digit number

also keep one key yourself and hide the other key in case your mum overlocks the safe by mistake

a decent size safe can be bought from B&Q for under £50

I would also get a ring doorbell / cctv just in case sister visits when your mum isn’t in

If she has done it before you have to consider the fact that she could do it again - however unpleasant this might seem.
Why does your mother need to have so much money left in the house? Surely smaller sums would do for birthdays / shopping etc.

You can’t accuse her of stealing with no proof.
your mum needs to tell her it’s missing ask her if she’s seen the money.

https://www.diy.com/departments/smith-locke-39-5l-electronic-combination-safe/1761466_BQ.prd

you could put something this size in a wardrobe if you don’t want fix it to the floor and then cover it with a blanket / some clothes if you think your sister may be nosey

something like this would be to heavy for your sister to steal and if you put up a ring doorbell you would see her walking out with it 😂

plenty of room for as many envelopes as your mum wants to have

No proof though, other than circumstantial, so reporting to the police isn’t going to achieve much unless your sister confesses. Your mum will say your sister must have taken it, and your sister will say she hasn’t. Police will likely taken into account your mum is elderly, and might buy into the fact she may be confused or has misplaced the envelope. You can’t change what’s happened, so you can only change how things need to be going forward. If your mum insists of the envelope thing, then she needs to make sure the envelope is properly hidden, and not allow your sister into the house alone.

How old was your sister when she stole from your mum before and what was the context/ amount of that? Are we talking a tenner from her purse spent down the local shops or hundreds of pounds to feed an addiction? Obviously stealing is stealing but I do think context matters as 25 years is a long time- but other actions might be needed especially if there has been an issue like addiction that could have resurfaced for her.

Is your mum completely solid memory wise? No possibility that she could have got confused or given the money to your sister for something and forgotten or has been mixing up her envelopes? How securely put away are these really? Could something find them helping her make her bed or make food in the kitchen or working at the gas/ reading the electricity meter?

Does your mum live alone or in supported accommodation? Would there be other residents who could have stumbled across the cash while visiting and lifted it?

I hate to say it but, while very distressing, it's probably a lesson learned for your dm about home security and cash being kept like that so hopefully she let's you set her up with a safer way of doing things going forwards.

I think you need to be very careful going forward because your sister is going to deny either way, because she didn't take it or because she did and doesn't want to get caught. If she did then she'll know you're both on to her. I would be inclined to set up a nanny cam and maybe a sting operation and try to catch her in the act.

I'd try to get a list of people who've been through the door in the last 2 weeks. Does your mum have home help or a cleaner who comes in?

Sadly, your mum may be right. My ex’s sister (respectable, worked in a school, looked like miss nice) stole from her mum several times over the years - first saying she’d “lost” a bag full of gold jewellery (don’t ask, taking to get valued or or something), but turns out it was sold to one of those gold buying shops by a woman fitting her description.

Then, as her mum got a bit dittery she abused her debit card to buy herself loads of stuff, lift cash etc. Her reasoning was her mum “didn’t need it and wouldn’t mind” when confronted. She seemed to be able to justify it to herself because her mum had a few quid in the bank and she didn’t. She would definitely have been tempted by cash in a drawer, especially when mum was so old and it could be explained away by absentmindedness or confusion.

Get the wee cameras - say nothing just now and catch her out. She will never admit even to herself she’s stealing unless caught redhanded.

I don't like having all my money in the bank either, I'd get your mum a safe and a hidden camera, but too be honest if your sister was my daughter and she stole from me I'd have disowned her years ago.

Your sister has previous...and also it was your mum she stole from. Your mum says she doesn't trust her...

Your sister, in my mind, would be no 1 suspect.
I'd deffo be putting up hidden portable cameras.

Once it's proven it's her, use that leverage to keep her money in a bank.

2500 is a LOT to have lying around!

The nastiest comment came from you. You say your sister has stolen money from your mum 3 times yet seem unable to see she might well have done it for a fourth time.
If you don't want to get involved just tell your mum that, if not thrn you need to have it out with your sister.

You’re being naive. Your sister has stolen before. Several times. She has form.

I simply cannot understand why you think it wouldn't be your sister when she has done it before. Even if it wasn't her this time she has to expect that every single time money goes missing ahead will be the main suspect because of her past behaviour. You need to have words with your sister - after you have reported the theft to the police. Your sister needs stopping.

Yes sadly of course your sister stole. Have you asked/confronted her?

I think you need to have a good look for the envelope before you go accusing anyone. You said yourself that you weren't there for long.

People seem to think the Dsis must have taken the money because she stole many years ago. Yes of course it is possible, but it's also entirely possible that the DM has forgotten where she left the envelope or someone else took it. Keeping large sums of cash in the house is a daft thing to do and invariably leads to this situation.

I reiterate that I would keep out of it. If your DM wants to accuse her DD then she can go for it. Hopefully she will at least keep most of her money in the bank going forward.

"You could mention to your sister that your mum had ideas someone was taking money so installed cameras, and that you're going round to review the footage - see her reaction."

I like this idea.
Preferably done face to face.

I’d get your mum a decent, simple home safe from Argos. Then she can lock her envelopes away. 🙂

I’d really Judy get her a home safe. To only give you the pin to open it with. So, only you and her will be able to access it.

She can then keep her envelopes.

You can’t accuse your sister of anything, because you don’t know.

But, this will stop it happening again.🙂

The nastiest comment came from me? How? People like you are keyboard warriors

Likely to be sister given she has form for it.
but that’s not the same as having absolute proof.
your mother needs to keep her money in a bank, maybe install cameras in the meantime.

Sadly some care workers and family can prey on older people. Awful as it is, dementia is a good cover story. It is so sad for your mum but your sister does have form.

A regular visitor to.my late dm's took money under false pretences. She did not want me to pursue it. At one stage mum's bank manager rang me concerned at the cash she was taking out.My dd2 had her birthday money taken by a trusted family member.

Whilst the bank may be the safest place for your mum's money my experience shows it does not prevent elder abuse just limits temptation. And this is elder abuse op. It is hard to come to terms with.

This whole thread is absolutely bonkers. People saying there's evidence the sister did it when there's nothing of the sort. She's been found guilty in the court of Mumsnet, though. I'll say it again, old people start saying people have taken things. It's what happens as people get older like becoming bad tempered and resisting change. Sometimes it's true, often it isn't and there is nothing to suggest it was the sister other than something that happened a lifetime ago. Be very wary of wrecking your relationship with your sister forever, @MuggyMcMuffin.

How do you know for sure that your sister took money previously? Did she admit it?