To ask PIL to speak English

[Helpamamma]

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

PIL moved to this country over 50 years ago. Their first language is Italian though they both speak fluent English. Their kids also speak Italian - though English is their children's first language.

PIL prefer to speak Italian and that is how they talk amongst themselves and to their children. The majority of the conversations are in Italian unless they are directly speaking to me.

I have tried to learn Italian and understand a lot of vocabulary but not enough to follow a conversation or hold a conversation. It never used to bother me but they have recently moved close by so we see them very regularly. Things like asking what to feed our children will be in Italian so effectively not involving me at all.

It was pretty unbearable on Christmas Day when it was all Italian unless someone was directly speaking to me. I missed lots of jokes and the chance to contribute in any way to the conversation at the table. My husband’s siblings married into Italian families so their partners also speak fluently. When PIL are not present they do not speak Italian to each other or amongst themselves.

I am hosting a party on NYE and I am genuinely dreading it. I very much do not feel part of the family - my own parents and siblings live hours away. Am I being unreasonable to ask everyone to speak English as they are all fluent and I am the only one who can not understand Italian or do I just have to accept it and try harder to learn a new language.

Any views and advice welcome.

You must learn Italian.

I disagree. The OP married into a bilingual family. She knew they speak Italian and could have chosen an English-only family. Since she didn't, she ought to do her bit learning Italian.

I think they are being rude, you don’t leave one person out of the conversation, if you welcome people into your home, you should make them feel included, not excluded .

op is learning Italian so there isn’t much else she can do

@ichundich and her dh chose to marry a woman who only spoke English so therefore he should be making sure he and his family are welcoming and considerate to her when they all speak fluent English and she doesn't understand Italian.

It’s hard to comprehend?

your comprehension skills are a bit crap then aren’t they?!!

Surely the best way for you to improve your Italian is to practice it in situations like this. I would talk to them and explain that you are keen to improve your Italian but can they make the effort to speak directly to you and a bit more slowly in Italian to help you. There is no excuse for your husband not speaking to you and the children in Italian - it will feel awkward unless he actively uses it.

The thing is you never will learn Italian well unless you're in environments like that where people are speaking Italian and you have to struggle to understand. This is an essential part of the process. You'll never wake up one day ready to tell them that they can speak Italian now because your language skills are now strong enough.

So if the rule is going to be English only when you're there until you're good enough in Italian (which will never happen), they'll never be able to speak Italian at big family events again.

That is a huge thing to ask them to give up.

If you want to learn Italian, like genuinely want to, the painful stage of feeling lost and struggling to understand is something you need to go through and the more time you spend in that environment, the sooner you'll find yourself making progress, which comes in leaps and jerks, not in a smooth line.

Can everyone speak in both languages at family occasions? Mix and match so to speak? You might feel less excluded then.

they'll never be able to speak Italian at big family events again.
That is a huge thing to ask them to give up.

She's not asking them to give it up. She's asking them to speak to her in English when they're guests in her own home.

It's not just op they're excluding, it's their grandchildren too.

They already do speak to her in English. They are speaking Italian to each other.

It would be better to ask them to slow down and try to use simpler words around her if the OP has a genuine ambition to one day be able to understand Italian.

If not then it's something that needs to be navigated honestly and OP needs to tell her husband that she does not want to learn Italian and take the conversation from there.

When you are bilingual you link languages with people. If I always speak language A to a person it feels very unnatural and difficult to speak language B to them, though I happily speak language B with other people. This is something that monolingual people often don't appreciate at all. It's not as simple as 'oh you're fluent in both languages so it's completely optional which you use'. Bilingual siblings may switch a lot with each other but generally you have a relationship primarily in one of your languages and when it's such an intimate relationship as the parent-child relationship, the language really matters. Languages are so much more than just the words and they are not interchangeable for bilingual people. My children are completely bilingual but incapable of speaking anything other than English to me.

The thing to understand is that to speak in another language than the one you associate with the person feels performative, like you are putting on an act.

So if they are talking to each other about something that is irrelevant to you (pass the water please, or how is your auntie said to someone else) it would feel forced and unnatural in English.

I think you are just going to have to persevere with the Italian, I'm afraid.

It's really not that complicated, and doesn't need her to spend money and a lot of time and effort learning a language that she doesn't require in any other situation or for any other purpose.

It's a big group of people who'll be talking in smaller groups. The group/couple of people that OP is with at any point, can swap to English to include her, and swap back to Italian when she moves on to another small group, who will then swap to English. That inconveniences the relatives minimally, as they can chat away in Italian for the rest of the party, but will have ensured that she's included.

Fortunately my father in law and his siblings always seemed to be able and willing to speak English to each other whenever we were around.

Again, the effort that it takes to include someone on a few occasions a year, when you're fluent in their language anyway, is far less than OP would have to put in to learn the language to the point of being fluent, just for those same few occasions a year.

I have been in this situation with Spanish. We all live in another country that’s not Spain or the uk. I just used to tell my DH to speak the language of the country we are in as it’s the common one to all of us usually it went from one language to the other when we were together. My PIL looked after the kids after school and they spoke Spanish at home . I ended up understanding a lot of Spanish and my now adult kids are more or less trilingual because they were around the three languages from the day they were born so it’s not all bad !!
But yes it’s a pain and a bit rude when everyone is speaking à language you don’t understand. They just get carried away I think and some things are easier to say in one language than the other.

Hearing Italian from their grandparents and at family get togethers will really have helped them if they do decide to learn it. They probably understand more than you think if they are with your in laws a lot.

Multi lingual family here. It's simple. If anyone in the room doesn't speak a language you are about to use, pick another.

Your PIL know you're not able to follow along. By continuing to behave this way, they are delibrately excluding you and modelling poor behaviour to your children.

I'd explain the effect of their behaviour on you and their GC, then ask them to speak English in your home to avoid any further concerns. If they feel unable to respect your wishes, draw the line as you would with any poor behaviour: your children, your home, your rules.

If they all speak good English then they should speak it in your presence.

Surely the easiest thing is to speak both languages? That’s what we do when we have our relatives round. Some speak English, some the other language. Sometimes one person will be speaking their language to someone who’ll answer in English. It’s all nicely jumbled and friendly. The people who are fluent in both languages translate when necessary. It’s not a big deal.

Sorry, but I think it’s nice they’re trying to keep their language and heritage alive. Just ask for translations then you can join in. You might well find that the conversation naturally becomes more English then too.

I think that you should surely be able to insist on them speaking English when they're under your roof - that seems only fair.

However, it's then only fair that they speak Italian in their own homes, although you could try asking them to slow down a bit. Then they might even appreciate the effort you're making.

Why does it have to be plunging somebody in at the deep-end? OP has shown willing to learn, so they could actually help her with this: speak slowly and clearly, avoid complicated or slang terms, speak in English some of the time but switch to Italian now and again for simple, useful sentences - and then translate if she hasn't understood it.

Similarly, OP could try out some Italian phrases with them and they could support her in this. If somebody is genuinely keen to learn, they will gladly grasp the opportunity to try it out - but you can't expect them to be expert or fluent straightaway.

They could have done this with their grandchildren too, maybe; but they seem to like their exclusive club and not want to help anybody else to join it.

OP, if you retire to say, Spain, and you were chatting to your DC in your kitchen, you'd speak in English. That's all your MiL is doing.

But if her DC’s Spanish partner, who didn’t speak English, was also in the room wouldn’t you expect them to switch to Spanish, as the language they all speak fluently?

I think British people in Spain would speak English even in front of their DC's Spanish-speaking partners.

Then they would be being extremely rude to do so

They are being very rude, but clearly they are not bothered about this- I think the only approach is to improve your Italian- do ghat but repeatedly ask they speak slower so you can understand- they'll get the message, and maybe even speak in English more.