To ask PIL to speak English

[Helpamamma]

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

PIL moved to this country over 50 years ago. Their first language is Italian though they both speak fluent English. Their kids also speak Italian - though English is their children's first language.

PIL prefer to speak Italian and that is how they talk amongst themselves and to their children. The majority of the conversations are in Italian unless they are directly speaking to me.

I have tried to learn Italian and understand a lot of vocabulary but not enough to follow a conversation or hold a conversation. It never used to bother me but they have recently moved close by so we see them very regularly. Things like asking what to feed our children will be in Italian so effectively not involving me at all.

It was pretty unbearable on Christmas Day when it was all Italian unless someone was directly speaking to me. I missed lots of jokes and the chance to contribute in any way to the conversation at the table. My husband’s siblings married into Italian families so their partners also speak fluently. When PIL are not present they do not speak Italian to each other or amongst themselves.

I am hosting a party on NYE and I am genuinely dreading it. I very much do not feel part of the family - my own parents and siblings live hours away. Am I being unreasonable to ask everyone to speak English as they are all fluent and I am the only one who can not understand Italian or do I just have to accept it and try harder to learn a new language.

Any views and advice welcome.

You need to get to a stage where you can understand Italian fluently

She really doesn't. Every single member of the family either speaks English as their first language, or speaks it fluently. England is their home.

They are choosing to exclude OP and her MIL is weaponising it. It's rude, it's unkind, and they are displaying that they don't consider OP as family.

As others have said, if she lived with them in Italy, it would be her responsibility to learn the language that she would also need to get through everyday life.
But having to put in a huge amount of work to become fluent in Italian, simply to be able to know what people are saying at family get togethers, is a ridiculous expectation when every single one of them already has the ability to communicate with her. They just don't want to.

They may well be wanting their grandchildren to learn Italian, but it sounds like the GC aren't interested. It's a foreign language to them, and not one that they will need in their lives any more than any other language - and that's if they are minded to learn any foreign languages at all, which not everybody is, especially those who already speak English.

Whether they like it or not, if you want to have a good relationship with your grandchildren for the time when your lives overlap, the major onus is on you to at least attempt to understand their world, even if you don't properly 'live in it'.

I agree with PP who suggested asking your DH to translate after every single sentence or consider getting one of those translation apps that will speak the English translation out loud as they're speaking.

@saraclara She really doesn't. Every single member of the family either speaks English as their first language, or speaks it fluently. England is their home.

So what? I also live in England and my DP is learning my language. Just because I live here doesn’t mean he shouldn’t give it a go.

It’s never a bad thing to learn a second language. Or third. Or fourth.

I think you need to learn Italian personally.

How do they communicate with their grandkids?

Why? She's not living in Italy!

She IS giving it a go. But it would take a long time to get to a point where she can follow rapid family chats in the busy and loud environment of a large family party.

This thread has turned into a 'value of learning languages' discussion, but the OP is about a large family who are choosing to exclude OP from their conversations, a MIL who's deliberately weaponising it, and a DH who isn't supporting his wife.

And that’s exactly why the OP wrote I have taken classes and invested in Rosetta Stone but it really doesn't come easy to me whereas her PiL speak fluent English

I was responding to the “she really doesn’t” bit.

It will never come easy to her if she knows people will switch back to English. I’ve been in the same position but with French. Obviously none of this is going to happen before NYE, I mean in general.

I speak 2 other languages besides English quite fluently, but my brain has to work much harder to have a conversation in them than in English and I don't feel I can express myself or my personality in the same way I do when I speak English.

Have you lived in a country where one of them is a common language - and thus you have used it daily - for 50 years?

I was replying to the “She really doesn’t” bit, you made it sound like she shouldn’t because they live in England.

But you've chosen to type in English on this - predominantly English language - website.

I don't think it would be against the rules for you to have used your own language instead, had you chosen to; but - as with OP's family - you would of course be restricting the participants who could understand you.

It doesn't need to come easy to her. Because it comes easy to the rest of them. And if they can't be arsed to speak to her in English when they presumably speak English to everyone else outside the family - colleagues, neighbours and everyone else they come across in life (remembering that most of them were born here) why should she have to go to such lengths?

I actually prefer it when the in laws are speaking in their language so i can listen in and try to learn. I'm also actually happy to be left out as i find conversations hard anyhow.

However it is rude that NONE of them offer to translate, ever! At least mine will offer so my presence isn't completely ignored

But the OP isn’t asking what is the best way to learn Italian. Currently she doesn’t know enough not to feel left out at the Christmas meal. Is your answer “suck it up until you’re fluent?” She’s just had a miserable Christmas because she needlessly was cut out. They needn’t have done that. Even with your strict regime, couldn’t you make an exception for the Christmas meal?

And those are irritating, boorish people who never properly immerse themselves in their chosen country or ever properly assimilate.

Nevertheless, there are plenty of Brits who move to a different (non-English-speaking) country and fully embrace that and 100% accept their new everyday language in their chosen country.

There's nothing else for it - you will need to hire a translator for NYE🫢

Of course not, I have my reply to that bit early on - I think they are both unreasonable. PIL were rude in not accommodating, she’ll be rude in trying to make them all speak English only. I think sometimes it’s difficult for people to appreciate how tiring it is to have to speak a second language all the time.

Like I said my reply was to the other bit.

She doesn’t have to. She can just not learn and feel left out multiple times in the future.

Also “it doesn’t come easy” seems to happen quite often to native English speakers, just saying. But that’s a different discussion.

But for everyone in the family apart from the PILs, English is their FIRST language!

And the PILs have been here for 50 years, so I'm sure they manage to talk to everyone else they come across in daily life without it being over-tiring.

I always feel bad for an in law who doesn't speak our family's native language but it's instinctive when we are together to speak in our own language. It makes jokes funnier etc

Of course, because I'm talking to strangers and our common language is English. But my common language with my family isn't. So it's very different. To be fair my family's English isn't as good as I'm assuming the PIL's is in the OP's family. No way could we talk the same. Language is very emotional and personal and I connect different languages with different people.

I do think her husband is in the wrong to exclude her. There is a lot of translating going on here when we have guests. It's hard work to be honest.

But my husband is super eager to help with bilingualism and accepts often not understanding what's going on when I speak to the children.

I get what you’re saying, but daily life ≠ home. While I think it was rude (possibly unintentionally) of them, I think it’s perfectly understandable that these presumably older in laws enjoy speaking their native language over the holidays. Maybe they thought she understood more than she did.

Op I think you've shown willing in taking classes etc and should continue actively to work on that. However this is just rude. It's great to be proud of your language and heritage but not to the point where you're actively leaving someone out who is already doing their best to be respectful of it.

I think you need to have a further conversation with your dh about it and the actual impact its having on you and how it comes across. I'd reiterate that you've been doing your part but they need to find a compromise to meet you halfway.

Lots of people do believe that immersion speeds up the learning of a language so there's maybe a happy medium such as if they're in your home and you're present they'll speak English. Or at the very least make a conscious effort to notice if its going over your head and bring you up to speed.

Your dh needs to lead the charge on this and stand up for his wife.