To ask PIL to speak English

[Helpamamma]

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

PIL moved to this country over 50 years ago. Their first language is Italian though they both speak fluent English. Their kids also speak Italian - though English is their children's first language.

PIL prefer to speak Italian and that is how they talk amongst themselves and to their children. The majority of the conversations are in Italian unless they are directly speaking to me.

I have tried to learn Italian and understand a lot of vocabulary but not enough to follow a conversation or hold a conversation. It never used to bother me but they have recently moved close by so we see them very regularly. Things like asking what to feed our children will be in Italian so effectively not involving me at all.

It was pretty unbearable on Christmas Day when it was all Italian unless someone was directly speaking to me. I missed lots of jokes and the chance to contribute in any way to the conversation at the table. My husband’s siblings married into Italian families so their partners also speak fluently. When PIL are not present they do not speak Italian to each other or amongst themselves.

I am hosting a party on NYE and I am genuinely dreading it. I very much do not feel part of the family - my own parents and siblings live hours away. Am I being unreasonable to ask everyone to speak English as they are all fluent and I am the only one who can not understand Italian or do I just have to accept it and try harder to learn a new language.

Any views and advice welcome.

No it’s not. They taught their children Italian and speak that regularly with them so job done. Their grandchildren do not speak it and neither does their daughter in law, they are just being rude when there are non Italian speakers in their company.

I'm the one speaking a different language with my family. I'm raising my children bilingually and my husband doesn't speak the language well.

No way would I speak to my parents in English - it would be unnatural. I do translate for my husband though and it's usually just a few of us, never a big group like yours.

Exactly!
They speak fluent English, have lived in England for 50 years, but they insist on speaking Italian even in OP's home - that's beyond rude.

If OP had moved to Italy and said she expected to speak English in her in-laws' home, THEN it would be appropriate to tell her to learn Italian.

But the grandchildren are also half Italian. If all they hear is English at home how will they learn Italian unless their grandparents speak to them in Italian. Learning a language like from a young age is invaluable and they are doing their grandchildren a favour. Having said that, they should obviously speak to their DIL in a language she understands but I do also think it’s great that they are keeping their family language alive.

It’s not their job to do it though. Those grandchildren have Italian speaking parents who can teach them the language. oP states the kids are also excluded and bored . Keeping their family language alive but actively damaging relations within that family is not a good thing.

yubu

Yes, I’m same. Also not British but was married to a Brit who didn’t learn my language in the 20+ years we were together. Keeping my language/heritage was super important to me. A language is so much more than just words.

If it's their house, you don't get to dictate what language they speak. If it's your house, you could insist. However, it will make things really stilted. It's something that only people who speak two languages will actually understand - I speak 2 other languages besides English quite fluently, but my brain has to work much harder to have a conversation in them than in English and I don't feel I can express myself or my personality in the same way I do when I speak English.

You need to get to a stage where you can understand Italian fluently. Don't worry about speaking it, you can reply in English as they'll understand. Stop with lessons or Rosetta stone, they won't help you get past a beginners level. Start watching tv series and movies in Italian with English subtitles and start reading simple books in Italian that you already know the story of. That's what helped me get fluent in the languages I speak.

But they clearly don’t teach them Italian, that’s why the grandparents have to step up and do it.

They don’t have to. It’s not their job. It’s up to the parents.

It is extremely rude to speak in a language that excludes others when there is a common language spoken by all.

They don’t have to and don’t even appear to be doing it, the kids are stuck at the non Italian speaking end of the table with OP.

It's rude. End of. They are all in the UK know you only speak English and exclude you like this.
Tell them how you feel and ask them to speak in zenglish.

I'd also book some classes or buy access to dumplings or other app to start learning Italian. Not because you have to but because you can surprise the shit out of them once you've learnt their lingo!

You’re both being unreasonable.

He’s doubling down on speaking Italian likely because in his mind “he’s at home”, you on the other hand have made very little effort because “it doesn’t come easy to you”.

I do think over the holidays they should have been more accommodating. However listening is how you’re going learn.

Are you really saying that it's ok for the PIL to invite someone into their home and then only speak in a language they do not understand? On what planet is that not rude? If people insisted on speaking only in a language I can't understand even though they are all FLUENT, and most natively so, in a language I do speak then I would not continue to spend time with them.

They are extremely, extremely rude . Your husband is a prick for answering his mother in Italian when you were discussing something with her in English. I wouldn’t host if I were you . I’d rather be by myself than in a room where I’m invisible.

Why should she?! This is an English speaking country and it’s OP’s party!

Same as me. In the beginning we kept the family language English and my children didn't pick the other language up as quickly as I hoped. So we had many discussions about it and I know exclusively speak my language and translate as required. The children do the same. They're 5 and 3 now and translate what the grandparents say for my husband if it is relevant. Language is so personal and means so much to me.

Yes, it’s reasonable to ask people to speak the common language when in a group. Especially in your home.

But I do think there are some things you can (and should) do to help that request go down well
-acknowledge that they probably feel it’s important to keep speaking Italian among family so that younger generations don’t lose/fail to develop the language. The fact that your DH isn’t as comfortable speaking in it will reinforce that for them. Italian is part of their family culture and heritage and many immigrants have very strong feelings about their children and grandchildren learning the family’s native language
-make sincere and visible efforts to improve your Italian and help your DC with it. Duolingo and classes are never enough to actually learn a language, you really do need to seek out regular conversation. But big gatherings aren’t the right setting for that conversation until much later. If your PIL are closer that opens more opportunities to have other exposure that is helpful and isn’t so exclusionary, though. So I might explain that in large groups you feel excluded because you’re no where near close to that level of fluency, but at the same time ask your MIL to have slower chats with you over tea or dinner and help you with your Italian. Your DC can of course join in, too, and your DH can both help and practice his fluency.

Yes, but it's obviously important to the grandparents that their grandchildren can speak their language and that's why they are trying to immerse them. They have quite likely realised that once they are gone there will be nobody around to carry on their Italian culture and language and they probably feel quite emotional about it.

I am absolutely not saying that they are right in excluding the OP by not speaking in her language but I can also see why they are doing it as it's the most efficient way to pass the language on and it's something they value.

stai essendo irragionevole

Perché?

I have a couple of thoughts here, being in a bilingual family and living in a multilingual environment. One, I think a PP earlier mentioned that they might have overestimated your level of comprehension, especially if they know you’ve made some efforts with Rosetta Stone and the like. Especially when there is a mix of languages happening, and when people themselves master two or more languages, it can be easy to assume everyone at least has a bit of a grasp of what’s going on and being discussed, even if they’re not all participating equally. Two, it is surprisingly difficult for a family, even one where everyone is bilingual, to switch and have family-style discussions in their other language, the one they don’t normally use in the home. All that said, I do think it’s fair to insist on English if you’re the one doing the hosting, and it also seems to me that English should begin to prevail as the generally non-fluent grandchildren get older.

The whole OP needs to learn Italian fluently is just a bit irrelevant in the short term, no matter how many times you say learn more Italian, it’s not going to make the OP fluent or even at a vaguely decent level in 3 days. I agree it should be a long term goal, but that’s not going to help right now.

the pil have lived in the uk for over 50 years, their kids were born here and so were the grandchildren, so their command of English should be very good and given the op says they’re fluent it is obviously is. The pil and the op’s husband and his siblings are obviously absolutely perfectly entitled to speak Italian, but if someone is there who does not speak the language or is not good enough at it to join in the conversation then it’s just plain fucking rude. Surely they can bloody speak the universal language of the family (by that I mean the one that everyone can speak and understand) for a few hours so the whole family is included.

its not an Italian or English exclusive thing, its a whatever languages are spoken thing.

like fair enough if people are having some side conversations speak in whatever language you want, but if its a whole family conversation, it’s fucking unacceptable to talk the language that not everyone knows. They’re not even excluding just the op, they’re excluding their own grandchildren.

yes I agree the pil and parents of the grandchildren who speak Italian should have absolutely taught the grandkids Italian but they haven’t, so at this point it’s a bit of a separate issue.

if I was the op, I’d be telling my husband to tell everyone English will be spoken at my house, unless any Italian spoken in a family conversation to everyone that is there and any Italian spoken about the ops children is translated into English everytime without fail.

yes I think it would be great for the op and the grandchildren to improve their Italian so they can join in well but that’s not going to happen in the next 6 months let alone by New Year’s Eve. It’s not that much of a bloody hardship to speak English for the few hours whilst at ops house.

Yanbu x

I think people have missed that the MIL is weaponising it - OP has told MIL "no more sweets" and MIL continues the children/sweets convo with the DH. She shouldn't need to clarify anything else, she's been told no. Your DH is also a problem, he's not bothered to teach his kids/make it a family language but speaks with MIL when it's undermining yoj.

Im a big proponent of learning languages, me and my kids are learning one and my kids learning a second one that i speak a bit of, but it is beyond rude to have a conversation that someone should be involved in (kids/sweets) in a language they can't understand.