To ask PIL to speak English

[Helpamamma]

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

PIL moved to this country over 50 years ago. Their first language is Italian though they both speak fluent English. Their kids also speak Italian - though English is their children's first language.

PIL prefer to speak Italian and that is how they talk amongst themselves and to their children. The majority of the conversations are in Italian unless they are directly speaking to me.

I have tried to learn Italian and understand a lot of vocabulary but not enough to follow a conversation or hold a conversation. It never used to bother me but they have recently moved close by so we see them very regularly. Things like asking what to feed our children will be in Italian so effectively not involving me at all.

It was pretty unbearable on Christmas Day when it was all Italian unless someone was directly speaking to me. I missed lots of jokes and the chance to contribute in any way to the conversation at the table. My husband’s siblings married into Italian families so their partners also speak fluently. When PIL are not present they do not speak Italian to each other or amongst themselves.

I am hosting a party on NYE and I am genuinely dreading it. I very much do not feel part of the family - my own parents and siblings live hours away. Am I being unreasonable to ask everyone to speak English as they are all fluent and I am the only one who can not understand Italian or do I just have to accept it and try harder to learn a new language.

Any views and advice welcome.

@123dogdog But what they are doing is part of teaching them Italian. By speaking to them and around them in Italian OP and the grandkids will have a much easier time with learning the language. It's not an instant thing, sit down and learn the language, but by being around people who are speaking it, seeing it which situations they use which words, hearing how things are pronounced they will pick it up eventually. I don't actually think it's a malicious act, I think it's them trying to involve them in the Italian culture.

They are being appallingly rude and your husband is behaving disgracefully. I would be furious at him. Every time someone speaks in Italian to him he needs to respond in English EVERY SINGLE TIME. Preferably translating the question in his answer.

If he doesn't your real issue is your husband. If all else fails tell them all directly to speak English and that it's not appropriate or polite to exclude you. I'm sorry OP they sound like unpleasant bullies.

Guessing she feels she is English and lives in in England and is entitled to speak in her own language. The family are being rude and discourteous and yes I'd be leaving their company and if asked tell them why.

It's not rude to speak your own language to your own children, especially in your own home!

English people ( generally) have a real problem with people speaking other languages in front of them. But they don't make a lot of effort to learn other languages.🤔

OP you need to improve your Italian. (Also, if your partner speaks Italian to his parents Italian is his first language).

You are not unreasonable and they are actually being incredibly disrespectful.

I would make a point of walking out and bringing the kids with me the next time it happened.

I agree with you. It's rude and excluding for no good reason when everyone can speak English well. It would be good for the OP to keep learning Italian but this would honestly put me off them all. It's really unpleasant behaviour especially in the OP's home when she is hosting. She's not there as 'the help'.

But she also married into a family that wasn't British by origin, she was part of creating a bi-lingual family. Also, they aren't stopping her from speaking English, she has even said they speak to her in English. What they are doing is they are continuing to speak their family language like they always have when they are together. OP is just noticing it more now as she sees more of them.

l can empathise OP. DH and his family speak the language of their heritage but were all born and brought up here. It’s one of the hardest languages to learn so I understand very little. DSIL insists on always speaking it to DH. I’ve grown used to her but I feel really bad for my DP when we are all together as a wider family. She will talk about things that directly affect them but exclude them from the conversation.

I guess it depends on your viewpoint. Should all change their ways to suit the needs of one person or should the one person change hers to suit the needs of everyone?
Before anyone says that the rest of the family don’t need to speak in Italian, yes they do, that’s what all people do when they come together - speak in the language they’re most comfortable with.

It's your DH's job to translate for you and help you feel included. It's a good chance for you to learn the language around native speakers. I hope if/when you have children, they will have the chance to be bilingual.

In your home you can definitely ask them to speak English. In their home, at a family reunion, maybe not. If you spend your whole life speaking in a second language it's great to get a chance to speak in your mother tongue in a group. If just you and your dh and children go round, then yes I think your dh should ask that they speak in English to include you.

DH grandparents came over from Italy before WW2. Had there family here and they all spoke Italian at home when together English at work.
Retired back to the village from where they came from, sadly passed now the home is still where family meet up especially in the summer holidays.

Now every family member here can all speak Italian down to the youngest GC age 4 and up and they all can speak English.
Then there’s me French born our children DH and I are tri lingual French Italian & English.

My parents only speak French, home is France for them they do understand a few English phrases/words but we speak in French when visiting or them with us.
Language is more than words it’s our heritage our DNA we feel more connected whilst speaking our own language.
I would really concentrate and get on with learning their language op it really will open up conversational nuances and be more inclusive for you.

I think it depends on whether you value your own comfort over being inclusive to everyone.

This doesn’t sound like it’s a case that the in laws struggle to communicate in English. They just don’t want to.

I remember going to the Basque Country where they speak Basque, Spanish, French. They were happy to change mid sentence to fit in with newcomers/visitors like me. Because they are nice people and didn't want to seem rude and exclude visitors even ones they'd only just casually met.

This family know what they are doing and don't care. No, they are being deliberately, calculatingly rude to belittle you. You need to tackle this every time they start off in Italian. Say ' no Italian in this house / no Italian when there's people who don't speak it here, it's rude etc.' Spell it out while smiling broadly. Important, you must seem happy but firm.

Every single time they open their mouths and don't speak English before non Italian speakers. You've got years of their misbehaviour to combat so don't hold back.

Their technique for teaching Italian is obviously not working very well, given the op and the grandchildren have no real clue as to what is being said. You can’t just speak a language and hope everything will be picked up on, even if someone is actively learning the language, other people speaking the language with no real context as to what they are talking about is not going to make it very easy. I absolutely agree it is a very good technique to immerse yourself, but there’s nearly always context about what is spoken so you can pick up the meaning and learn.

and given what the op has said it doesn’t seem like they are trying to teach/help the op with Italian. It very much comes across like they either don’t care either way whether the op and grandchildren are included, or they are actively trying to exclude the op (maybe not all the time but the majority of the time at least).

I’d go out and leave them to it. Life’s too short to be bored.

It's not rude to speak your own language to your own children, especially in your own home!

They are not in their own home, they're in OP's home.

And they're not teaching the grandchildren. The non-Italian speaking grandchildren are down at one end of the table with the OP, while all the Italian speakers are at the other end. If the PIL wanted to teach their gc, they would make a point of sitting next to them and including them in the conversation.

They should speak Italian to each other and English to you. Some of my best friends were a German mum and an English dad. Mum-kids - German; Mum-Dad - English; Dad - kids - English; Mum to me - English; Dad to me - English; Kids to me and dad - English with the odd German word thrown in when they didn't know the English; Kids - Mum - German with the odd English work if they didn't know the German!

Not in OPs house and not when OP has directly spoken to MiL in English about one of OPs children.

Most of the time This "rule" only seems to apply to "foreign" people. English people abroad often complain about foreigners speaking their own language in their own country and think that everyone should speak English around them!

Guessing she feels she is English and lives in in England and is entitled to speak in her own language. The family are being rude and discourteous and yes I'd be leaving their company and if asked tell them why.

I get that.

But having spent a lot of time with English people in other countries, where they also spend a lot of time feeling entitled to speak English, I just wonder why it's such an effort for English people to learn more languages.

I know so many households with multiple languages and everyone rubs along in a mishmash. The only people who seem to get mortally offended and flounce are the English. I've been in tri- and more-lingual households where you just wait if someone is speaking one of the other languages, or learn, or ask your spouse in this case, to interpret. Why isn't the DH interpreting?

I once had someone get rarely pissed off with me when we were in a mixed group of English and French speakers in a third county. There was one person who spoke no English, one person who spoke no French, one more French speaker than English. So I volunteered to interpret for the non-French speaker. We spoke French all evening, I interpreted diligently. The English speaker got annoyed anyway and said I was 'showing off'. She fully expected English to be spoken, not French. Because... I mean it's hard not to see it as xenophobic English imperialism.

DGP are probably just disappointed that their GCs don't speak Italian.

I just wonder why it's such an effort for English people to learn more languages.

Possibly because when we try to practise our other languages people just tend to speak English at us?

Or because there isn’t an obvious second language for English people to learn, and so there isn’t access to the vast range of cultural resources in that second language? Some non-English speaking countries even have state education available in English; that is rare to non-existent in England.

I also get annoyed with English people who move to a non-English speaking country and won’t learn the language. But if you’re English living in an English speaking country it is more difficult to find the opportunity.

I don't think it's rude. I'd really embrace this.

I think they should speak English in your house.