To ask PIL to speak English

[Helpamamma]

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

PIL moved to this country over 50 years ago. Their first language is Italian though they both speak fluent English. Their kids also speak Italian - though English is their children's first language.

PIL prefer to speak Italian and that is how they talk amongst themselves and to their children. The majority of the conversations are in Italian unless they are directly speaking to me.

I have tried to learn Italian and understand a lot of vocabulary but not enough to follow a conversation or hold a conversation. It never used to bother me but they have recently moved close by so we see them very regularly. Things like asking what to feed our children will be in Italian so effectively not involving me at all.

It was pretty unbearable on Christmas Day when it was all Italian unless someone was directly speaking to me. I missed lots of jokes and the chance to contribute in any way to the conversation at the table. My husband’s siblings married into Italian families so their partners also speak fluently. When PIL are not present they do not speak Italian to each other or amongst themselves.

I am hosting a party on NYE and I am genuinely dreading it. I very much do not feel part of the family - my own parents and siblings live hours away. Am I being unreasonable to ask everyone to speak English as they are all fluent and I am the only one who can not understand Italian or do I just have to accept it and try harder to learn a new language.

Any views and advice welcome.

I also find it interesting people, including the OP, say the children's first language is English (as in her husband and siblings). I'd say for my children it's very equal at the moment, but very aware they are still little.

What works is if your husband responds in English and relays what the GPs are saying to you so it “slows” communication and inconveniences them. If that doesn’t prompt more English get him to translate slightly wrong so they have to correct “eg Mum says she doesn’t like the dessert, wants two sugars in her tea, blah blah”. There are many ways to skin a cat. Manipulate them out if it.

Cismyfatarse is right. If you see them several times a WEEK this is unacceptable. Or else just don't go and say its because they are rude and you can't be bothered to waste your time sitting there being excluded. If they carry on don't host if they come to your house, make other plans and let 'D'H feed and entertain them. They, including DH, obviously don't care about your feelings.

It would make the point very pass-agg nicely!

But how silly to use a translator when the people conversing already share a common language. Perhaps when it's two politicians from different countries meeting and, although they may have one of their languages in common, or the two are very similar, they prefer to use a neutral one; but a family?!

Yeah I feel the same way. I have a similar family dynamic to the OP and I would feel incredibly awkward and dare I say it - rude - to insist on the language that others’ spoke. I actually encourage my inlaws to speak the language they’re most comfortable in. I’m not saying you’re wrong to feel the way you do, but I don’t personally see the outrage. FWIW I’m not originally from the UK. Your attitude is probably typical here.

I know you write that everyone is perfectly bilingual but if you spoke another language well maybe you’d have a better idea of how people can prefer / feel more themselves in their native language and with family.

This is a dh problem.

Why doesn’t he care that they’re excluding you and why isn’t he including you and also helping you learn Italian.
just stop going, if dc don’t speak Italian and are being left out too they don’t need to go either. He can go see his family and chat to them by himself.

They should speak in English when around those that can't. If you are hosting them then that is what they definitely ought to do. Also have you seen those earpiece translators that you can buy? I know you shouldn't have to use one but perhaps it's an idea.

You have a DH problem.
How do you get on with PIL one to one?

Best way to learn is for your husband to speak Italian at home, and as he's refusing to do this I'd tell on him to his parents and hope they shame him into doing as you've asked him to. They seem to have some sway over him, if he's continuing to talk in Italian with the family even though he's told you it doesn't feel natural to him.

Honestly, even if they rest of them are talking Italian he could be speaking in English so at least you can understand something.

Fair enough; but to be honest, I think in your circumstances, I'd say you need to make the decision whether you want to all speak your common language or be honest and not invite/disinvite the in-law.

It just doesn't work having both; what on earth is the point in going to a social event when you can't understand or communicate with anybody else there?

Exactly this. OP, it’s not all about you. The PILs are taking the opportunity to speak their native tongue in front of THEIR GRANDKIDS. And small kids learn fast. You do not get to stand in the way of that, regardless of where you are.

Absolutely this. We're in England and they can speak English, there they should if it would otherwise exclude you by not. Plus, it's your house. Therefore it's rude to expect you to speak Italian which is not fluent to you nor are you in Italy.

My in laws live in southern Europe and speak their language to each other. They all speak English well and speak English to me, but will have conversations in their language. To be honest, I'd never dream of asking them to speak English to each other. It would seem very odd. However, I now understand their language, just from years of listening to them. I understand everything they say. I don't know how to respond to everything though. What usually happens is that they chat in their language and I join in, in English. This seems to work well for everyone. I think you should try this. If they're asking what to feed your children, I assume you know what they're asking. Just respond to them in English.

. ...a large family who are choosing to exclude OP from their conversations

I don't think they're actively choosing to exclude anyone. They're just doing what they've always done. It's not like they used to speak English to each other and have now decided to speak Italian to exclude the OP.

YABU.

I have bilingual family. I’m not. It’s a great way to be comfortable in another language. I understand a lot more than I can speak in the other language and we generally move between the two languages - often a conversation will be in the other language and I’ll join in in English.

You need to learn a lot more Italian!

Why does she have to 'get to a stage where she can understand Italian fluently'?! She speaks English and is in England. Same with them. It's her choice if she wants to learn Italian. People lead busy lives and not everyone has the time to learn another language.

The PILs are taking the opportunity to speak their native tongue in front of THEIR GRANDKIDS.

By shoving them all up one end of the table, next to the one adult who doesn't speak Italian?

How do we even know that they want to learn Italian? They were born and live in Britain; they speak English natively. Why would they want to learn Italian just because their grandparents are Italian and speak it (as well as English); any more than they would desire to learn, say, about how cars work or how to play the cello just because one of their parents or grandparents is/was a mechanic or a professional cellist?

Ultimately, the only people who are 100% responsible for their grandchildren not speaking Italian as their native/only language are the grandparents. If they'd never decided to move away from Italy, they wouldn't have had children born outside Italy; nor would they likely have had them marry non-Italians and thus grandchildren born anywhere else. It's about choices: if you only ever want to speak your native language and for your family to all grow up doing the same, don't move to a country where it isn't the/a common language.

Their grandkids aren't interested, and it's not happening.

And that's not why the PILs and everyone else is speaking Italian. They're doing so because they want to. Which is all very well, but at least they could bother to translate a bit when OP is standing near whenever combination of relatives is talking. And MIL could stop undermining OP by discussing her with DH in Italian, right in front of her.

All the people shouting about the grandkids are wilfully ignoring the fact that the Italian speaking parents of those children have not taught them Italian and the grandparents aren’t even including them in the Italian conversation or even sitting close to them. They placed all the non-Italian speakers together, then promptly ignore them. None of that suggests it’s about preserving heritage and passing on linguistic skills.

FFS. They aren't being rude they are speaking their native language

Learn it!

@maddy70 op is in the process of learning it as she's already stated but that takes a significant amount of time. Some people are quicker to adapt to languages than others. How long should she expect to not be involved in conversations regarding her own children etc until she gets to that standard? Would you go to someone's home and be hosted by them and decide to only speak in a language they didn't understand if you had the means to include them? Knowing they were doing all they could to learn your language?

Yes it is rude.

At some point you have to accept they don't want you included in their conversations so you are being unreasonable

But your not unreasonable to not like that or stop inviting them round

I know many families where English isn't their first language (Italian, French, Russian Spanish, Romanian, Hungarian) and without exception, when there are people in that group that don't understand their first language, everybody always speaks in English to ensure everyone is included. It's the polite thing to do.

My dh's family are Italian and in a similar situation as OP's in-laws as they have also been living over here for the past 50 years or so. They nearly always speak English when I'm with them as it would be rude to exclude me. The only time they don't is when they are talking with very old family members who find it a struggle to keep thinking of the English words. But even these conversations are usually half English/half Italian as they flit between both languages. I have picked up a bit of Italian over the years but nowhere near enough to actually communicate on any level with his family so I'm grateful they are considerate and want to include me. His family also only speak dialect and they struggle with speaking and understanding standard Italian so even if I learnt Italian I'm not sure we'd be able to communicate easily.

OP, if they are all fluent in English then your dh's family are choosing to be rude by using language to exclude you.

I think it’s perfectly normal for them to want to converse in the ‘family language’ when they’re all together and weird that they should change for the benefit of one person who doesn’t speak it.

So you agree that they don't consider OP as family, then? Or indeed their own grandchildren?

I think the best thing that you can do in this situation is to keep asking your DH to translate.

My in-laws speak their first language when they’re at my house, and I actively encourage them to as I want the kids to be properly bilingual (DH always speaks to them in the other language). I’ve been learning for 10 years, but it’s very difficult to learn a second language as an adult, so most of the time I have no idea what’s going on. All I can do is ask for translations, or if I’ve managed to get the gist of the conversation I’ll chirp in in English.