To ask PIL to speak English

[Helpamamma]

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

PIL moved to this country over 50 years ago. Their first language is Italian though they both speak fluent English. Their kids also speak Italian - though English is their children's first language.

PIL prefer to speak Italian and that is how they talk amongst themselves and to their children. The majority of the conversations are in Italian unless they are directly speaking to me.

I have tried to learn Italian and understand a lot of vocabulary but not enough to follow a conversation or hold a conversation. It never used to bother me but they have recently moved close by so we see them very regularly. Things like asking what to feed our children will be in Italian so effectively not involving me at all.

It was pretty unbearable on Christmas Day when it was all Italian unless someone was directly speaking to me. I missed lots of jokes and the chance to contribute in any way to the conversation at the table. My husband’s siblings married into Italian families so their partners also speak fluently. When PIL are not present they do not speak Italian to each other or amongst themselves.

I am hosting a party on NYE and I am genuinely dreading it. I very much do not feel part of the family - my own parents and siblings live hours away. Am I being unreasonable to ask everyone to speak English as they are all fluent and I am the only one who can not understand Italian or do I just have to accept it and try harder to learn a new language.

Any views and advice welcome.

I can see why in their own home they revert to italian but to do so in your home whilst being hosted by you - and when they all speak fluent english- seems spectacularly rude, OP. The fact that no one seems willing to help you when you are at theirs - someone could talk to you slowly or make more sustained efforts to translate and include you, and it wouldn't necessarily need to be your husband- also seems rude. And manipulative, given how MiL seems to weaponise it.

It sounds like you have been trying to learn italian and I do think you should keep that up- if only as a weapon of your own to even the score with MiL, but I still think they could all make more efforts to support you. Immersion is a brilliant tool but sometimes give and take and patience are needed- and will pay off. Especially as not everyone picks up languages easily. It would also be helpful if you were able - and had enough time to- look into ways to up your level as it sounds like you may have reached the end of your rosetta stone journey.

I am a huge advocate for learning languages - and I appreciate that I myself have said perhaps OP needs to keep buggering on- but some of the mental gymnastics on this thread are astonishing.

My DM is bilingual, and I don't actually notice which language she is speaking. She speaks English most of the time but sometimes she'll say words in her mother tongue.

My DC and DH only understand English but I'd never dream of asking my DM not to use words in her mother tongue. If DC or DH do not understand something, they would ask, and I'll translate or DM will repeat it in English. And then I think DM would try and only speak English but she might forget, but that's OK, I'll just translate or remind DM that DC & DH don't understand her mother tongue.

I agree that it comes across as rude. I found it extremely hard going speaking to my mother in English (it just went against the grain for us) but we definitely made the effort when there were English only speakers around. I also suspect they would be mortified if they knew how you felt about it.

Most people that speak more than one language including English should politely speak the language that you were more comfortable with

If their parents speak/spoke Italian to them, then their first language (mother tongue) is Italian and English is their acquired language (presumably learnt outside the home). They are speaking Italian to each other because that's what they've always done, assuming they didn't suddenly decide when the children were 12 to start speaking Italian at home. I am born and bred in the UK, and speak English as a native, but it isn't my first language. That's the one I spoke at home and the only one I knew until I was about 3 years old. With my parents and siblings and extended family, it feels strange and forced to speak English (which we sometimes do at family gatherings to accommodate those who can't follow, but wouldn't switch to English all the time).

Definitely not.

Sorry OP, I think this is on you, You're the only one who doesn't speak Italian but expect everyone else to adapt to you? Classes, a proper teacher (not apps), and practice are what you need. If you just switch off every time you're in a conversation, you'll never learn.

The way I read it the Grandparents moved here roughly in the 70's. Their children were brought up here, Their son married a British woman and has British children.

The only ones who could consider Italian their mother tongue is the Grandparents, yet they also speak fluent English. Why should anything other than English be the language of choice for all of them.

Thank you for all the views and advice. It has been just as divisive as I anticipated.

I will continue to learn Italian and hope it one day clicks. Ironically I'm the only one who has tried to teach our DC any Italian as I would love for them to be bilingual as I clearly struggle so much to learn a second language. When PIL speak Italian at them they just get annoyed and frustrated and demand English as they have no clue what is being asked of them. DH won't speak to them in Italian because he wants them to learn it from someone with a proper Italian accent so I doubt it will ever happen for them.

I'm not going to say anything before NYE and just keep asking for translations at the party in hope it will be more obvious I am being left out of the company. If I am still left on my own with no idea what everyone is talking about then I will bring it up with DH and PIL after the fact. Maybe it would be a great idea to ask for their help in learning - thank you to those who have suggested that.

@Helpamamma we have a VERY similar set up in my family and my in laws too.

The grandparents want to speak Italian but when my brother's wife or my brother in laws wife is there ( they don't speak Italian ) they don't as much. But even if the grandparents do speak Italian, we tend to reply in English to encourage a switch.

I even sometimes say, let's speak English guys.

It's totally up to your husband / his siblings not to keep going along with it and to encourage the switch.

In our family it weaves itself in, of course it does, but the younger family members keep replying in English..don't even mention my husband's grandma though because she has a go at us for speaking English. But she gets overruled as well.

Keep learning of course, but it is what it is.. they live here. They can make the effort to not exclude you. I do and always will. It's just rude not to.

She says her PIL - so her husband's parents - moved here and raised their children (her DH and his siblings) in the UK, but the husband & siblings speak English to their (her) children. But the language of the home for her DH and siblings growing up was Italian, so that's their mother tongue and they acquired English at school etc.

DH won't speak to them in Italian because he wants them to learn it from someone with a proper Italian accent

How 'proper'/authentic are PILs ' accents, after fifty years away from Italy, not hearing Italian spoken around them on a day to day basis?

... if I ask my MIL not to give our children any more sweets she will turn to my husband and converse with him in Italian

So not just rude but deliberately rude and deeply hurtful with it

As PPs have said I'm afraid you have a DH problem in that he encourages this too - and in your own British home at that - so personally I'd go with actually asking them to use English at yours and explain that, while you're doing your best, it's unpleasant to be treated like this

And if even that doesn't get tthrough to them at least you'll be left in no doubt as to what you're dealing with here

It sounds like a really difficult situation, and I genuinely sympathise with how isolated you must be feeling. It’s not unreasonable to want to be included in conversations, especially when everyone else is speaking a language you don’t fully understand. Feeling excluded, even unintentionally, can be really discouraging, particularly when it comes to family gatherings where you want to feel a sense of belonging. It’s wonderful that you’ve made an effort to learn some Italian, but it’s also fair to ask for some balance. You could have a gentle conversation with your partner or in laws, explaining how much you value being part of the family but how challenging it is when conversations are mostly in Italian. Perhaps you can suggest a compromise where English is spoken more often during group gatherings, particularly when you're hosting or present. At the same time, as you're continuing to learn Italian this could be a way to bridge the gap and show your willingness to connect with their culture, but that doesn’t mean you should feel pressured to do it alone or overnight. This isn’t about being unreasonable, it’s about finding ways for everyone to feel included. You deserve that too.

Your house, your rules. Tell them You feel uncomfortable/left out.

Am a bit with you @BaronessBomburst But older people are more likely to revert to their language because it's easier. Perhaps everyone inthis pack needs to make an effort. English speakers are notorious for not learning other languages (Excuse is always, I tried, it's too hard) while expecting those that don't speak English as a first language to speak "good English ".
@Helpamamma As others have said your dh needs to translate which can also create a constant polite reminder.
You can ask everyone to speak English only at your soirée. Your house, your rules. Just prepare for some reaction (might be negative), and because they are used to Italian they may forget and revert.
Good luck
Question: how is it you don't even know enough to be part of a discussion on food? Its not as if they are discussing Michellin star menus with 300 additives and 60 ancient and strange ingredients?!

Exactly this!

Send your kids more often to your PIL to learn Italian. It will be a missed opportunity if they don't take advantage of having this skill!!!

I think they’re falling into the habit of talking Italian without considering you .
When you’re the host and it’s your home they ought to speak English.
Learning different languages doesn’t come easy to everyone ,my perfectly intelligent husband isn’t skilled at that at all .
I find it a little bit easier , especially European languages although I probably sound very stilted talking to others 😆
For what it’s worth my Italian neighbour did speak to her family in Italian when they visited but would then turn and talk to me in English if I happened to be there .
But ..her relatives didn’t live here in the UK and while they spoke some English they weren’t fluent

How did you get on OP?

I still think that, after 50 years of living in Britain, it can't come as too much of a surprise to them that most people here don't speak Italian.