To ask PIL to speak English

[Helpamamma]

I genuinely don’t know if I’m being unreasonable.

PIL moved to this country over 50 years ago. Their first language is Italian though they both speak fluent English. Their kids also speak Italian - though English is their children's first language.

PIL prefer to speak Italian and that is how they talk amongst themselves and to their children. The majority of the conversations are in Italian unless they are directly speaking to me.

I have tried to learn Italian and understand a lot of vocabulary but not enough to follow a conversation or hold a conversation. It never used to bother me but they have recently moved close by so we see them very regularly. Things like asking what to feed our children will be in Italian so effectively not involving me at all.

It was pretty unbearable on Christmas Day when it was all Italian unless someone was directly speaking to me. I missed lots of jokes and the chance to contribute in any way to the conversation at the table. My husband’s siblings married into Italian families so their partners also speak fluently. When PIL are not present they do not speak Italian to each other or amongst themselves.

I am hosting a party on NYE and I am genuinely dreading it. I very much do not feel part of the family - my own parents and siblings live hours away. Am I being unreasonable to ask everyone to speak English as they are all fluent and I am the only one who can not understand Italian or do I just have to accept it and try harder to learn a new language.

Any views and advice welcome.

I'm British, but my first language is not English. I have sympathy for both sides. It is very difficult to speak to people in a language that's not your "normal" language with those people. While I do really try to be inclusive and speak English, I'll often drift back to my first language without realising. I even get mental blocks on words. It's like my brain has one side for one language and another side for the other. When I'm with people I would normally speak my first language with, it's as if the other part of my brain switches off. I'm sure there's probably some neuro science explanation for this.

To be honest, I'm amazed that your DH and none of his siblings/partners have pulled them up on this and backed you up. Have you spoken to him about it?

Maybe, if they're not the most aware or caring of people, the PIL may just automatically expect to speak their own native language in a home environment; but the generation below them must surely realise how excluding of you they're being. At the very least, they could switch between the two languages; they could even flip it all around and use English by default, but use Italian only when directly addressing their parents/PIL! That might underline the absurdity of having to keep switching languages when everybody is fully fluent in - and used to using on a daily basis - one of them.

Just like most people would actively make sure not to swear or use other age-inappropriate language or discuss adult themes when children are around, they must be very aware that you're being deliberately excluded, and appear not to care about that.

OP- what does your DH do when this is happening? Why does he not bring you into the conversation or help you out? What does he say when you discuss it with him?

There is a possibility that they have overestimated your Italian skills and just think you’re quiet but most likely they just don’t care and want to speak Italian.

In answer to your original question…I would ask your husband to request that they speak in English when they are all coming to you for new year. It’s one thing for them to speak Italian in their own home but it would be incredibly rude to exclude you in yours.

I wouldn't be hosting the party that's for sure.

If all the people speak one language. And all but one of the people speak another language, then it's bloody rude to converse in the latter.

I'd sit there looking really bored. Then when they ask what's wrong, point out that you can't join in as you don't understand a word that's being said.

First post nails it

Meh. Majority language is spoken. You could, of course, speak English. They all understand.

We aren't in UK and speak mostly English at home - nobody has died yet

I don’t know how people expect bilingualism to happen.

My husband’s family have a different native language to mine and we just both translate for the other so our child can aquire both. I understand his family’s language so less translation is needed on his part.

If the grandparents do not do this then your children won’t know italian. That’s the trade off.

He just continues to speak in Italian. Only when I ask what's being spoke about does he translate. It's easier for everyone to just continue as 'normal' as I am the only one being excluded- though some of the grandchildren are becoming young adults and are starting to look bored of the lack of involvement too. My place at the table is always next to the grandchildren so I have someone to talk to 🙄

As I said before it never used to bother me but as we see them a few times a week now it's becoming very noticeable that I am not involved with the company. For instance if I ask my MIL not to give our children any more sweets she will turn to my husband and converse with him in Italian- even though our conversation was in English so it does get weaponised in some situations. If I bring it up it gets ignored so learning Italian is definitely be the best solution but unfortunately I am not there with it yet.

One of the aunties at Christmas said she felt bad that I couldn't follow the conversation so I replied that I was really fortunate that everyone at the table could speak English... no one took the hint though.

It's definitely a hard one because I really don't want to have to ask them to speak in English to accommodate me but I also don't want to be excluded and until I can at least follow a conversation in Italian I don't know what else to do.

He just continues to speak in Italian. Only when I ask what's being spoke about does he translate.

As is so often the case, you have a DH problem

I am learning a second language and it’s bloody hard to do as an adult. However family are never so rude as to not interpret as they go if they’re all speaking it around me. The very least your DH should go is translate as a matter of course

Yes but what does your DH say when you discuss how it makes you feel? It must come up in conversation. If it hasn’t you need to be really blunt about it, if you ask your MIL a question and she answers your DH in Italian he shouldn’t enable that, he should challenge her or immediately translate for you and continue the conversation in English so she knows she can’t get away with it.

If your DH is happy for this to continue then you have bigger problems than your lack of Italian.

I can see both sides of this and I would focus on getting myself and the kids fluent in Italian. The vast majority of the people there has grown up with Italian as their mother tongue and if they don’t speak it frequently the language will be forgotten by them since they now mostly speak English in other situations and that would be such a shame.

Ask him to translate. Every single time. DH. You need to translate. In English for me please MiL. Please translate. Every time. Encourage the other non native speakers to do the same. Very politely. Listen. Then reply in English and ask that your words be translated. Don't stop until they get the message.

Only half joking. It would certainly work when it is being used to discuss you / what your kids are allowed to eat.

One of the aunties at Christmas said she felt bad that I couldn't follow the conversation so I replied that I was really fortunate that everyone at the table could speak English... no one took the hint though.

Hmm, that very much reminds me of Phoebe from Friends, when she says "I wish I could... but I don't want to". If only there had been a way for her to stop having to feel bad about it...

Holy fuck I can't believe the amount of people who actually think it's ok to actively exclude someone from a conversation when there is really no need to. I could totally understand if OP was living in Italy, then I would say buckle down and learn the language. All of the people involved (except PILs) are English born and bred and speak fluent English. PIL also speak fluent English. To deliberately speak another language, when there are people in the conversation who can not understand is actually nasty.

OP have you ever said anything to them? Honestly if it was me I would interrupt politely and say "guys I would really love to be involved in the conversation but I can't as although I understand some Italian, I don't understand enough. It make s me feel really left out when I can't understand you or join in"
See what they say, if they refused after that id just stop meeting them and I'd tell them why.

I wouldn't ask them. They'd probably switch to English but that would be awkward in a different way. Probably talking to your husband and asking him to let them know that you feel left out would be a better approach, rather than asking outright. If they've transmitted the language so well to their kids then they probably really care about it and would like the grandchildren to speak Italian too. If you're going to ask them to switch the language they naturally speak with each other and their kids, which is an awkward thing to do, I would show willing by redoubling efforts with the Italian yourself if you are inclined to do so.

I don't see why she has to learn Italian. Obviously if they were all living in Italy it would be different but they don't.
They can all speak English so why don't they, unless it's too deliberately exclude OP?
My parents aren't French but they do speak it fluency so me and my siblings also speak French. We don't speak French Infront of my DH because he doesn't speak it and we're not rude enough to exclude him.
OP talk to your husband. Ask him why you're being excluded when his parents are around, it might not have even occurred to him. He can speak English and translate things. If you want in the New Year perhaps he can teach you Italian (but don't feel bullied to do that unless you plan to move to Italy).

I agree.

They are incredibly rude and your H needs to tell them this.

My in-laws do the same to me (not Italian, a different language). They all speak English perfectly of course - they are all British. It’s monumentally rude. Anyone I’ve ever mentioned it to acknowledges the same. I’ve asked my DH to speak in English when I am around but MIL in particular will still not respond in English (his Dad is much better at remembering!). As a result, we don’t see them very much and we don't invite them around often. It’s not a nice feeling just being ignored and/or excluded.

It's inconsiderate of them but also a bit hard to comprehend why you've not mastered Italian by now, even though you can immerse yourself and it's easier than ever to learn & practice a foreign language. I'm having the same issue with my DH, who still hasn't learnt my mother tongue after 20 years. It's driving me nuts.

Why should the op have to learn a 2nd language to understand visitors in here own home in her home country when said visitors who have lived in this country for over 50 years already speak her native language, which is English not Italian.
The grandparents should stop being rude ignorant twats and speak English in the OPs house and not purposefully exclude her

It's their way of keeping their heritage alive and passing it on.

They're excluding you at your own party. Fuck that.

This^
English is my second language, I speak with my DD our first language but when someone else is visiting I make an effort to speak English.