MIL gifts for DD are driving me bonkers

[LearningToMum]

So, I suppose everyone has a version of this difficulty at some point, but I don't know how to deal with it at all! I have a 3yo DD, with whom I am trying to communicate about gender, femininity, womanhood, etc. in a more healthy way than I ever got when I was growing up. To cut a long story short, I'm trying to raise an empowered, confident, body-positive person and because of my cultural background, I'm really sensitive about this. I come from a place that has... shall we say... deep problems with gender-based discrimination and violence. I've suffered in my own life because of this, and I am only now at my big age beginning to view myself as a woman in more healthy and empowered ways. Anyway so. I have always had a difficult relationship with my MIL, and this has taken a turn for the worse since the birth of DD, which makes open conversation about this sort of thing difficult if not impossible. She just doesn't engage, or is openly dismissive, either to me or then behind my back. It's like talking to a brick wall.

So the latest turn is that at Christmas she always sends down a large box of gifts for DD. This Christmas, this contained several packs of make up. Children's make up, to be fair - glittery tubes of lip gloss, lurid eye shadows, etc., and a furry make up bag to store it all in. The presents arrived pre-wrapped. DD was very excited to receive them, and was squealing with delight about the make up. Needless to say I was horrified. I have managed to draw a firm line with DD without crushing her enthusiasm, and said that we can be very happy that Granny sent us these gifts, but that they are not for use now.

Another set of gifts was a set of plastic dolls with very revealing outfits and bright make up on their faces. This has made it into 3's toy basket, but I'm not too fussed, as like all dolls, she will lose interest in about a week.

Left to myself, I would not have even given a 3yo child lip balm or face cream unless it was needed to prevent chapping, let alone a box of eye shadows.

I'm grateful that we didn't have a tantrum/showdown over these gifts with 3, and even if we did, I would not have budged on this.

Given how unresponsive she has been about all other such 'issues' in the past, I am not minded to pick up the phone and have a 'conversation' about this. But I don't know what to do, or where to put my very real annoyance. I want to simply throw the make up in the bin. I want to pick a fight with DH (who knew nothing of these gifts in advance, and didn't have any problem with me saying 'absolutely not', but doesn't seem to share my outrage). I don't know. Am I being unreasonable to think this is the start of a slippery slope that she is precipitating? We don't have a lot of contact with them, so she is not a huge influence in my child's life. But. I feel remarkably angry.

“Foisting multiple books about feminist achievements is unnecessary. It's not the 1950s. They'll come across female doctors, and other professional role models in a natural and informal way, and those are the people they'll choose to emulate.”

🤦🏻‍♀️ Oh dear. Yes they will of course come across professional role models, but also can’t be anything but positive to include books about historical and inspirational figures into their literature? I take it you’re not familiar with the Little People Big Dreams books @saraclara as I would be concerned if you were and still considered introducing a child to them to be a negative thing?

I'm very familiar with those books, and they have their place. My granddaughter has a couple too. But introducing them in an intense kind of instructive way, and to children too young for them (as I've observed some friends do) feels quite artificial to me, and can be counter productive.

I'm an enthusiastic feminist, but personally I prefer to build on naturally occurring circumstances. For instance my daughter at 6, was admitted to hospital. The doctor managing her care was female (not quite so common 30 years ago). I was quite pleased to be able to chat with my DD about what a cool job being a doctor would be, and talking about what my DD might like to be when she grew up.

Either call it face paint or throw it in the bin when nobody sees. That's it. Also stop expecting a conversation with your MIL. No conversation is required. Your kid, your rules.

Pretty sure you can do both: talk about cool jobs and provide your children with books. The books don’t need to introduced in an “intense” way, they can just be bought for and read to the child, as with any other book.

My point was that parents don't have to take this all too seriously or intently. Talk of buying the entire series of those books is all a bit intense. My granddaughter picked one up in the library, so I encouraged her to open it and read a bit to her. But at her age (4) it's still just a story like any other, and she got bored after a few pages and wanted to look at a different book. Maybe she'll pick up the ones she has at home, at another point.

Maybe I misread the tone of a couple of earlier posts, but I just think that it's easy to get too serious and intentional about bringing up girls in this area, but experience taught me that it's more effective to do so more organically, so that they're not put off by the earnest delivery.

Boring!

These are grown women who probably played with dolls when they were little.

There's a time and place and a three year old just needs to be a child.

Wearing pink, glitter, etc doesn't stop one being a feminist.

I don't think I ever implied that I was going to be intense about it, or make it part of some dour-faced educational 'lesson'. Being intentional doesn't mean 'intense'. We laugh about the books we have, and make them part of play, and that goes for these as well, and of course she has a choice about what books she picks up when, etc. Maybe nuance and balance doesn't come through well in how I write, or maybe not at all over the internet? Who knows!

I use that as an example to different people who may not have read the whole thread. It's a good example, because some PP have implied that I am not letting her 'be a child'. She is - as you put it - being a normal child. I am not over-analysing every move, and this is not about 'acceptable levels of girliness'. Your anger about 'woke parenting' is spilling over the rim a bit, but I'd respectfully suggest, it's misplaced on this thread.

I dunno. I can't fully explain it, and that's part of the reason why, I was perfectly serious to pose this as an AIBU question - because the answer could very well be yes, you are - and I'd like to know if so! I think though, the answer is that I was comfortable getting her the nail polish because it was extremely 'child coded' in its appearance, and I know it's barely visible to be honest. It's clear, with coloured glitter, and washes off after a handwash (and so, doesn't survive more than a few hours on her permanently getting dirty hands). The make up is designed to be maximally visible - bright colours that go on the face, in packs that look like grown up make up rather than eg childish 'face paint', and the sexualised cover of the box made me instinctively uncomfortable. I would not actually mind or care if she got a box of toy make up (eg wooden lipstick). I also would not mind or care if she got good quality face paints. These are also cheap crap that as PP have pointed out, I would not like to put near her eyes (can you imagine a 3 yo rubbing glitter into their eyes? I don't want to imagine the aftermath..) Anyway. I think the question was a good one, and it helps to reflect. So thanks!

I get this. I find it tricky. Most mornings she is with me, and I do actually 'need' to do skin care - my skin flakes in the winter if I don't moisturise it. I'm not precious about my routine and it's not one of those 10-step ones. But I do take care of myself with what I need. Similarly she will sometimes see my wearing make up simply because I sometimes want to. My journey has been of feeling compelled to wear it every single day in order to 'be acceptable' to now becoming increasingly happy to have a bare face, and then just playing with different looks and colours that I like. I'm curious about some PP pointing out that my choice of "fancy" rather than "pretty" as an explanation doesn't cut it. I would like to think about what an alternative would be, when she asks why. Do you ever wear any make up @KarmenPQZ ? If so, what do you tell your kids if they ask or notice it?

I smiled today when I remembered this post, @MaddestGranny. 3's granny also sent a selection of clothes which 3 wanted to wear. Obviously, they were all pink - every single item. As she wore her trousers, 3 asked: "Are these girl trousers?"
I said "No, they're just your trousers". I didn't know what else to say. But it made me think of all the PP who keep saying that I may be 'imposing' my 'rigid' views about gender on her. She asks! I answer! And sometimes, I answer (annoyingly) with a simply "why would you think that" and leave it at that.

To clarify, I haven't done anything to reinforce as a memory other than to say "this is for later". The make up and its bag are visible on her dresser. She has gone in and out of the room and seems to be ignoring it. PP have pointed out that she may want to play with it and may be disappointed, and may be masking because I said no (for now). That's a valid possibility, but I have not had a dramatic reaction AFAIK.

Nobody said it did, but I would hardly describe the lives of those women as “boring” - I bet their lives have been a lot more interesting and inspirational than yours!
And one can by all means read these children’s books whilst also wearing pink glitter.

This is really shocking but after I read it I looked again at the particularly horrible clothes bought for my daughter over Christmas (in a pile waiting to be returned because polyester. DD is autistic and will only wear very light cotton). Yep, every single item with a bear or similar.

😱

🤣, and nobody said their lives were boring!

Get a grip.

Boring to have all those books shoved in your face for your 4th birthday like someone suggested.
Not hard to understand.

And, you know nothing about my life.

Oh, having too many books is boring? OK, got it, thanks for clarifying, I understand now, my grip is well and truly gotten.
I missed the post about shoving books in a child’s face, I agree that would be incredibly unpleasant.

There seems to be this persistent idea on this thread that if you do something with intention, it is 'intense', or 'too much' or that you're 'shoving' or 'imposing'. So much black and white/ extremes! The idea that you can be presenting some values to a child in an open, playful, light way just seems to escape people. I don't understand the alternative - be completely permissive, never ever present anything that you think / values that are important to you, and just let a young child raise herself. Ok...

The someone who suggested it was me. I wasn't going to 'shove' anything at a child. I come from a culture where children are given books, age-appropriate, but very much with an intent to expose the child to lots of different themes, values, stories, cultures, and ideas. We value reading. Not everything has to have an immediate 'fun' value. Children also do value learning. 3 was given a nature book by her other granny (my mum) that my MIL did in fact call 'boring'. Guess what... 3 learnt the names of some common British birds from it, and gets immensely excited in the park to be able to say their names. "MUMMY! ROBBIN!!! BUUUUUUU EGG ROBBBIN!!!" came out of her mouth just before her 3rd birthday. She likes to learn. Most kids do. No one is 'shoving' anything.

Good 👍.

🎭

Do you ever wear any make up ? If so, what do you tell your kids if they ask or notice it?
I wear it maybe once every couple of months if I’m going out for evening drinks with friends. Can’t remember the last time I wore it in the day. I still won’t put it on in front of them (kids are 10 and 7) and they mostly comment on lipstick but it’s actually tinted Elizabeth Arden 8 hour lipsil and I’ve put it on them in the past when their lips have chapped and I’ve had only that in my pocket. Although my eldest was mortified when she realised and proceeded to smear it all over her face trying to rub it off. She does ask when she can wear mascara to school and I think at high school I’d probably let her if she pushed but I somehow don’t think she will. And certainly hope she won’t.

we frequently put nail polish on during holidays but I do my son and daughter and mostly leave myself out (never enough time to let to dry properly in me!) I offer to do my partner but he never takes me up on it.

It’s really insane once it’s pointed out to you. And it’s so outrageous. I feel like there needs to be more done by Next / M&S / supermarkets to stop this subliminal sexist messaging

I like this... very interesting and thought provoking. I do wonder if my journey will take me to a similar place, where I am wearing make up even less. I'm certainly in a very different place now than when I first came to the UK, when I would not have let my DH even see my face without full make up on as an early-20-something.

Gosh that makes me so sad for your former self but well done in the progress.

I actually feel maybe I’m too much the other way sometimes. Make more effort for my friends.Then on a rare night I get out with my partner we’re generally rushing to get the kids settled with the babysitter that I find I haven’t even got changed or brushed my hair let alone thought about make up!

@KarmenPQZ are you aware of this campaign? https://www.mumsnet.com/articles/let-girls-be-girls