To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

You just have to not use dehumanising language while hypocritically censuring others.

But you don’t even see the dehumanising aspect of using the words ‘gender criticals’. Like we are not people.

So you counter the idea of misogyny, sexism and homophobia with an accusation of “transphobia”? Typical.

If transgender isn’t those things explain how a man can be a woman without:

a) it being a feeling inside his head that means he gets to redefine “woman” (misogyny)
b) not resorting to sexist stereotypes to define him as a woman (sexism) and
c) not make him a lesbian if he is attracted to females (homophobia).

this is perfectly ridiculous.

Holding gender critical beliefs is not an essential characteristic of your person and does not make you part of a minority group that suffers systemic institutionalised discrimination and prejudice . You are no victim.

Do you see it yet? Or have you been using the ‘gender criticals’ for so long without realising the dehumanisation of the term?

You have removed the word ‘people’ from the description.

As I said, if someone used the term the ‘transes’ on MN, they would be rightly deleted.

Yet multiple women have been found to be discriminated against based on these beliefs and have won employment tribunals as a result.

Ok dear

So Dehumanising a group of people you don’t agree with is ok in your view.

And patronising and condescending people is ok too in your view.

Yet multiple women have been found to be discriminated against based on these beliefs

I would not call this discrimination, and don’t feel the least bit sorry for these individuals .
And being gender critical is a choice: choose better my friend.

There’s no need to keep harassing me.

It is good to see the fullness of your opinions on this thread.

They were discriminated against. A judge decided so regardless of what you think.

And are you going to answer my questions?

If transgender isn’t those things explain how a man can be a woman without:

a) it being a feeling inside his head that means he gets to redefine “woman” (misogyny)
b) not resorting to sexist stereotypes to define him as a woman (sexism) and
c) not make him a lesbian if he is attracted to females (homophobia).

Yes I vehemently disagree with those judgements.

There was an excellent judgement in a lower court that was unfortunately thrown out on appeal.

If transgender isn’t those things explain how a man can be a woman without:

a) it being a feeling inside his head that means he gets to redefine “woman” (misogyny)
b) not resorting to sexist stereotypes to define him as a woman (sexism) and
c) not make him a lesbian if he is attracted to females (homophobia).

You accused me of being transphobic by defending these things so you should at least justify why I am transphobic and you are not misogynistic, sexist, and homophobic instead.

I can’t engage with your incoherence.

And there we go. Just the usual illogical arguments, sexism, misogyny and homophobia of trans activists.

You asked the question about gender dysphoria and asked how that works with multiple genders.

Simple. If one’s internal sense of one’s sex does not correspond to the sex one was assigned at birth then it does not matter how many gender identities there are. It just means the gender identity you have does not correspond with how you are perceived. That holds whether there are one or two thousand gender identities (I also don’t think the term gender dysphoria is considered transphobic.)

😂 Riiiight.....

Does this mean you understand that using ‘gender criticals’ is a dehumanised term and if you want to describe someone’s beliefs it is appropriate to use ‘gender critical people’ or using an appropriate humanising term if you choose to label people ?

Great. Thank you.

I’m going to ask you again to stop harassing me please.

It just means the gender identity you have does not correspond with how you are perceived

Ok, now define “gender identity”.

One’s internal sense of being male/ female/ man/ woman/ other.

Well if you believe it's a 'choice' to believe truth and material reality are important (which you have shown you don't, but most of the rest of us on here think are important) then you might have a point. But for most of us living on Planet Earth instead of Planet Popit, we quite reasonably think that facts, evidence, truth and the scientific method are worth defending against rebarbative beliefs based on nothing more than a non-evidenced whim. It's therefore not a choice to hold GC beliefs if one wants to have any self-respect.

As for not being a 'victim', it depends what you mean also. Those of us who are natal women are members of an oppressed class. Those people who are natal males are members of the oppressor class. No matter how they identify.

How do you know your 'internal sense' corresponds to either male or female or man or woman, without being able to define that male/female/man/woman are?

“I also don’t think the term gender dysphoria is considered transphobic.”

I don’t believe it is transphobic either. And that is not what I said.

I asked “Are you saying that you only accept people with a gender dysphoria diagnosis as being a transgender person?”

Meaning if a person with a transgender identity does not have gender dysphoria and never did, do you consider their gender identity to be valid?