To not understand how this means a man can get a female passport?

[Brla]

A close friend of DH recently came out as trans. He’s had surgery abroad (FFS I think it’s called) and has set up an Instagram account with videos of the process and many, many, many outfits and make up videos. He has two sons and was married for 14 years before this.

I don’t really have an opinion as such on being trans. I think it’s likely that it’s a genuine feeling that I just can’t understand as I haven’t experienced it and don’t think it’s necessarily just a mental illness.

I don’t understand though that this person has not had his genitals removed or changed (not sure how you would express it) and yet has still got a new passport now saying F. Am I being thick for being unable to get my head around this? He still has a penis so surely that means he is male? How can he have had a passport issued as female?! Do you literally just need to apply and say you’re now presenting as female?

Uh huh

It’s not a choice

its just something that we just KNOW about ourselves

Because it’s not something that’s based on conscious cognitions that require definitions. That’s not the psychological mechanism. But this has been covered in the thread.

I get it. We all get it. You think being trans is dumb. We hear you.

So if a man declares himself a woman and insists that the word “woman” includes males, explain how:

a) that is not misogyny, allowing a man to tell women what they are
b) not sexist, if his internal sense of being female is predicated on sexist stereotypes and
c) not homophobic, if his attraction to females now makes him a lesbian as per the ideological definitions.

It hasn't been covered, because there's been no evidence presented of this.

Please be so good as to point me in the direction of a peer-reviewed paper that evidences this?

I ask because your assertion goes against every convention we usually collectively observe when seeking to enshrine something in law.

bring trans is not misogynistic, it’s not homophobic, it’s not sexist. It’s just the way that some people are.
There’s nothing wrong with being trans

But you can’t explain how it isn’t those things by addressing the questions I asked?

Well, I guess if you (a general ‘you’) are to be labelled as ‘gender criticals’ like some amorphous blob, you wouldn’t know anything about yourself.

I am sure most ‘gender critical people’ though are quite cognisant about the basis for why they believe the things they do though.

I’ll just leave this here…

In what way is it not sexist, misogynistic or homophobic? You stating this as if it's a fact doesn't make it so. If you can argue the case convincingly, that's quite another thing and what posters are wanting to see. From a GC perspective it is quite obviously those things. I think we'd like to know your reasons for disagreeing. Proper reasons, that is, not just 'it isn't', with nothing to back it up.

Because your questions are made up nonsence that have nothing to do with being trans

A male person or a group of male people demanding that a female life experience is changed to include them as a male person or male people is indeed an act of misogyny. Whether they intend it or not, the outcome is that male people are now defining the female life experience.

Ok, explain how a man can say he’s trans, and is in fact a woman, without using any misogyny, sexism or homophobia in your description.

Tell us what it is if you’re so sure, rather than avoiding the questions and saying what it isn’t.

So to confirm, it is your position that simply being trans makes a person sexist, misogynistic and homophobic. That being trans is definitionally all of those things?

Yet at the same time you claim you aren’t prejudiced against trans people and you consider it a slur if people suggest you might be transphobic?

If you really believe the former, then just come out and admit to the latter. It’s not hard.

I’m not afraid of saying I have a problem with gender critical beliefs- I do! I think they are wrong and appalling.

why can’t you just admit you have a problem with trans people?

I’m not afraid of saying I have a problem with gender critical beliefs- I do! I think they are wrong and appalling.
why can’t you just admit you have a problem with trans people?

You say you have a problem with an opposing belief system, which is fair enough, but you say the people who don’t share your belief have a problem with trans people. Why can’t you accept that people have a problem with your beliefs, in the same way you do? Why do you insist on turning that into a perceived attack on people. You’re not comparing like for like.

I don’t believe in any religion, and trans ideology is just another that I don’t believe. I have no problem with Christians, Muslims, or trans people. But I do have a problem with activists in all of these belief systems who insist on imposing their beliefs on others and attempt to change legislation and social order on the basis of their belief systems.

So asking you to explain what being trans is, is asking you to define your beliefs. I can only see a belief system that requires misogyny, sexism and homophobia to function, and lack of scientific reality, which it shares with other belief systems.

Your beliefs must be incredibly shaky if you’re unable to define them when asked. Most people of faith do much better when challenged.

can’t you accept that people have a problem with your beliefs, in the same way you do? Why do you insist on turning that into a perceived attack on people.

Because you are saying that being trans is in itself is a form of misogyny , sexism and homophobia. If it is the mere state of being trans you have an issue with- it is an attack on the person.

Please dont put words in my mouth

I'm describing my own innate reality as a female whilst waiting for you to fully explain 72 130 genders and how those experiences correlate with, whilst not contradicting the experience of a mtf transgender person who has no psychologically definable mechanism to explain the meaningless words he uses to describe the sex of his lady brain and why he uses them to define his rights and accesses in female society. Or why he needs makeup and high heels to enable the mechanism that engages his conscious cognitions if the conscious cognitions stand up on their own without scrutiny

Ok night all

It’s a challenge on their beliefs and those they share with you.

So explain how a man claiming to be a woman is not misogynistic, sexist and homophobic. As I said, as a believer you should be able to do this easily. You keep avoiding it for some reason.

his lady brain

latest derogatory and demeaning words used against trans people.

Night.

Many men have claimed to have lady brains. Is it sexist, misogynistic or derogatory when they do so? If not, why?

I've heard the 'lady brain' crap as well, over and over again, from trans activists on social media eg Twitter as was.

Why aren't they campaigning for an acceptable outcome such as having 'identifies as trans' written on the passport Observations page?

The fact that there are no acceptable outcomes for them other than the big tamale of validation has led to the big wake-up of the wider population, with regard to what has actually been going on with regard to legal documents, security and safeguarding.

A few pages back it was you that made the argument that some studies might indicate a female brain in males. You notably didn’t describe what that difference was between other male brains or how the difference made theirs female, or indeed how that then changed the sex of the rest of their body. We were left to conclude by you that you believe some men have lady brains

thats on you!

A few pages back it was you that made the argument that some studies might indicate a female brain in males

No I bloody didn’t.

i do not believe in a “female brain”. I posted some research on neurobiology , sexual orientation and gender identity . Perhaps you should read it.

and yes your words about trans people are derogatory and demeaning and there’s no excuse for them.