Argument with EX wife over gift giving for the children.

[As78]

Hi, dad here in need of some advice about me and my ex wife's different views on Christmas presents. Apologies if it's too long, I'm just trying to explaine the whole issue with all details.

4 children 12, 9, 7 & 5, for Christmas ex wife follows the something you want, something you need, something to wear & something to read method of gift giving, so each child will get 4 gifts, as an example my 9 year old got

Want - slime
Need - swim goggles.
Wear- t shirt
Read- book (not sure what book)

I do not follow this method of gift giving, it was ex wife's turn to have the kids on Christmas day so today I celebrated Christmas with my gf, my parents, her parents, both sets of siblings & the kids, so as you can imagine there was a lot more gifts. Around July time my ex spoke to me and asked me to follow her method of gift giving, I told her I wouldn't be doing this as we just needed to agree to disagree and respect each other's ways of doing things, she wouldn't let it drop and we ended up having an argument resulting in me refusing to discuss the issue with her anymore, I collected the kids at 8am this morning and she asked to have a private word, she proceeded to once again bring the issue up and ask that I only give the children 4 gifts, I was in no mood to speak about this again so I just walked away.

Ex also doesn't do santa, In my house we do santa, not all the gifts are from him, just 1 gift and the stocking, it's just a bit of fun really. The kids had their gifts from me, 1 santa gift and then gifts from my parents and siblings, my gf and her family also got presents for them, it sounds like a lot but the kids each filled a box full of toys/books to donate to chairty at the end of novemeber to make room for new toys.

Kids have spoke to mum on the phone and she's now called me in a mood telling me how out of order I am and that I'm going against her wishes, now I've remained calm on this matter and bit my tongue, then eventually just refusing to speak about it but I've finally snapped today on the phone and told her that's she's just annoyed because I'm giving the kids a good Christmas whilst on Xmas day they sat at hers with nothing more than a tshirt and some slime (it's not a money issue, she has money) now I shouldn't have snapped but I was at braking point with her being controlling and trying to tell me how to raise my kids on my time (50/50 custody) she has now text me to say that the kids aren't to bring any of the presents they have received to her house and they have all to stay at mine permanently, the kids usually bring favourite items between houses so this is going to be an issue.

I don't even know what I'm asking, has anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice on how to move forward with this situation? My gf bought eldest some popular spray and skin items and I already know she's going to want to bring them between houses, no idea how to tell the kids they can't do this as it's their presents and they should be allowed to do as they please with them.

It is very sad, and ultimately pointless and unnecessary. I hope things can be calmed down somehow. Wishing you all the very best. These are not the sort of memories kids should be left with. I hope she can see some sense before it escalates and she alienates them.

So she's a hypocrite as well as the rest, it's ok for kids to go without but not adults. I can't stand people that think kids should put with behaviour an adult wouldn't. My XH doesn't wholesale ban things, but does every now and then decide the kids have too much stuff at his house and return things without even asking the kids what they want to keep at his. It makes them feel unwelcome and like it's not really their home when they can't even decide what they keep in their room. I understand not wanting to be overrun with stuff, but their not, so it's just shitty.

🤣🤣

Ps if she screams and shouts at you that's abusive you can tell her you'll only communicate with her via email that's what I told my ex and it's so much nicer than having arguments or nasty calls or WhatsApp's

I hope your kids are OK on Sunday and understand what good care you’ll take of their gifts from you. Luckily they with have you to behave well and trying to keep it calm. At least they’ll know they’ll get them back on days with you.
Unfortunately I wonder if for celebrations to come you will have to consider ‘leave-at-one-house’-ability of gifts ie something that is not so everyday usage.

I don't think he should be a carrier pigeon or stir things yo

You are the dream ex! I wish mine would pay my mortgage for me and leave me with enough space cash to buy a Range Rover 🤣

@As78 I am actually shocked at some posters on here giving you hard time and excusing your ex's behaviour!

She sounds batshit crazy, controlling, incredibly selfish and massively spiteful telling your kids they can't bring their presents home because you didn't follow her presents rule 😱😱 If she can afford an 80k Range Rover she can damn well afford to buy her kids some decent presents fuck me a box slime, pens and a goggles smacks of can't be arsed.

OP there isn't alot you can do about your ex banning the kids from taking their presents home but you should have made your ex tell the children since she made the rule. Sadly in years to come your ex will be a lonely woman who's children won't bother with her because they won't forget her hurtful and spiteful behaviour and if she realises that it'll be too late.

Just continue being supportive of your children and parent your way ignore your ex trying to dictate how you parent, when she brings it up simply reply what the kids do on my time is up to me and don't engage further put the phone down or ignore the text's.

Totally agree that your ex is being unreasonable, but is there a middle way, maybe send back 4 gifts per child to match her ideology?

BTW ‘Life with Beans’ have raised a very tight knit, loving, wholesome family!

No it’s not, my child will get more gifts with his Father and have a vastly different and happier Christmas creating amazing memories. I can’t give my child that, my child understands and appreciates each home in different ways - therefore the OP’s ex wife shouldn’t have concerns about disparity and inequality,

You can change the way you communicate. You don’t need to talk to her, any information you need to pass on to her do through text, email or on a co parenting app. Don’t answer the phone, and don’t get out the car when you drop the kids off. If she comes to the door when she drops the kids off it can be tricky, just say something like thanks then close the door. If she comes in and won’t leave you need to change the location of the drop off. When she says can I have a word just say no, please use text, email or parenting app. Don’t engage with her.

She treated herself to a new Range Rover.
What a hypocrite.

@As78 I am in complete agreement that you’re in the right and sound like a great dad. Please stop repeating the RR and slime comments though you’re getting stuck in a loop, we can all read thread so far and now you need to work out how to move forward and find the best damage limitation approach (because let’s face it you’re the grown up here).

However…

I don’t think you did the right thing telling the oldest two when you did as they’ll dwell on it for two days, and I don’t think that getting her to come over on Sunday is necessarily the right thing to do either.

Why? Because they’re clearly upset which means that:

1. She will now blame you for them being upset, and say that HOW you told them was unfair and you’re making her out to be a witch. She’ll retaliate to the kids that you’re undermining her and trying to make her look bad, which will upset and confuse the kids.

2. There will likely be a confrontation on Sunday either between kids and her, or you and her, which doesn’t help anyone.

I think you could have waited until Saturday to talk to kids when emotions had died down a little between the two of you and it’s less close to Christmas.

However that’s done now and I think your next steps need to be as follows:

1. You tell her you told the oldest two and they are really upset. You tell her SHE now needs to talk to them ahead of Sunday to work out a solution. This means that she gets “her say”, and that you don’t inadvertently become bad cop to everyone which WILL be what happens next.
2. You tell her that the older two were so upset that she needs to be the one to tell the younger two. Why… so she can explain it in the best way from her perspective, for them to understand. They’ll still think she’s a dick but if there’s a way for them not to get upset about it then that’s the kindest thing all around. For that to happen they need to hear it from her.
3. Tell her this needs to be resolved between her and them BEFORE Sunday, THEN you can decide if you’re dropping off or not. Otherwise the argument becomes you’re refusing yo take them home… which is not the case at all and confuses the issue entirely.

With so many emotions running high don’t complicate things.

-You’ve tried to tell them (you shouldn’t have done). You’ve done nothing wrong and she’s bullying you and kids into feeling like you have.
-It’s her rule, she now needs to explain and own it (or else she’ll blame you for delivering the message wrong).
-SHE needs to resolve it with them before Sunday, especially as oldest are saying they don’t want to go.

BUT … DO THIS ON SATURDAY, not Friday, otherwise it will ruin more of your time together which is probably what she wants tbf.

*to add to the above…

The way to frame this to her is that she clearly believes there is a good rationale for the four gifts and that it’s the right thing for them. You don’t follow it, so that makes her the best person to explain it to them in a way that doesn’t upset them. Just say if you explain it you’ll probably say something wrong…. So best that she does it.

She will probably tell them you are in the wrong and that you’re backing down on an agreement.

Keep your message to the kids is clear and simple:

There’s no right or wrong way to do Christmas, everyone is different and does what’s best for them. Repeat.

Sorry if it's already been answered but why can't you say to ex "I have followed the 4 gift rule, want-ipad, need- hygiene, wear- whatever they wanted and read - a copy of how to deal with your narcissistic mother".. On a serious note, poor kids will end up resenting her and remember her misrable "rules"

Ridiculous. You cannot call social services because of a disagreement about Christmas gifts.

Why would you tell them on Christmas Day, 4 days before they have to go back to their mums???
Sounds like you have made a much bigger deal out of this than you needed to and you are trying to manipulate them against their mum?
I don’t think either of you have the kids’ best interests at heart from the sound of it.

From your messages it sounds like you think you are the perfect parent and aren’t willing to see things from any other side other than your own?

Your ex has no right to tell you what to buy your kids for Christmas, equally you have no right to be making an issue out of what she buys.

Personally I think the children should be allowed to take what they want across homes, but since the two of you can’t seem to work together/ compromise on what is an appropriate gift , she has every right to set a boundary about what goes into her house or not.

There was no need for you to blow this up into a huge issue at all, especially on Christmas Day, 4 days ahead of the issue and putting a dark cloud over the kids’ enjoyment of their stuff before they have to leave.

You are both at fault here and the situation sounds toxic

Your ex has no right to tell you what to buy your kids for Christmas; equally you have no right to be making an issue out of what she buys.

Which you repeatedly have btw . You even said the words “what self respecting mother would do x, y, z” , because you don’t approve of her Christmas gifts.

Appalling.

I feel so sorry for the kids having to navigate 50/50 when this is the coparenting relationship .

I can see why OP told the DC now rather than wait until Sunday. They have time to consider having to leave the gifts at dads versus the possible consequences of taking them to mums and having them thrown out.

Meanwhile 95% of commentators on this thread are bending over backwards to tell you what an amazing , outstanding father you are, and what a crazy, miserly, psycho bitch your ex is! One user even suggested you report her to social services for child cruelty.

(Oh and the backstory is you left your wife when she was pregnant and dragged her through a court custody battle).

This is our society folks
Well done mumsnet 🤦🏼‍♀️ 👏🏻

Out of interest @As78 , has the ex explained to anyone why she is so wedded to this 4-gift idea and in the way she has? I don’t watch these YouTube families but equally I can’t see a new Range Rover fitting into the ideology of back-to-nature, wild childhood, homeschooling, earth motherhood sort of lifestyle. I mean, that family probably have to stick to the rule because 10 kids, but why is she doing it?

Sadly I think you've inflamed the situation here and not put your children first by having that conversation with them. It's fine to have different gifting ideas and for you to have bought whatever gifts you want but if the EX has asked that you don't send them back that is her choice. You have the children 50 percent of the time and it's fine to have stuff at Dad's. By having the conversation with the children you've pitted them against their mother. And now you want your EX to sort out a situation of your own making? Not cool. Yes, in an ideal world they should be able to move stuff between houses but knowing mum's stance why would you try to use it as an opportunity to score points. You also come across as over focused on your EXs social media viewing of a particular family blaming it in part for the breakdown of your marriage.

Batshit crazy as always.

Something if off about “dads” posts and I take anything here with a massive pinch of salt, so would bet the other side of the story wouldn’t paint him in such a superior light.

You need to tell your ex-wife not to be so fucking ridiculous that she would want to make her children not want to come home over this. Have a really frank conversation, tell her that this will drive a wedge between her and the children and then leave it up to her. I would then just totally disengage and not discuss it with her further. No reaction to her, but just support your children. Best of luck

There are some mean posts on here OP - all I see is a great Dad with a positive relationship with his children who has not stuck to some batshit crazy rule about buying christmas gifts. This is solely an exW issue if she wants to introduce a miserable christmas- then so be it. She cannot expect other people to do the same.

From what I read your DC’s are well provided for and supported by you - and the skincare is irrelevant - most 12/13yo near us have that make and type! In fact I bought my niece some last year which she loved. Your ex is the problem, not you. I don’t know how you deal with the gifts not going to her house - but she may need to check herself again especially if your DC’s don’t want to go home.

And Jesus who buys themselves a range rover and has a pile of christmas presents to open when one of their kids gets slime and t- shirt. She knows how to treat herself doesn’t she!!

Sounds to me like they had a wonderful christmas with you and shes pissed off it was so much better than her poor effort!