Argument with EX wife over gift giving for the children.

[As78]

Hi, dad here in need of some advice about me and my ex wife's different views on Christmas presents. Apologies if it's too long, I'm just trying to explaine the whole issue with all details.

4 children 12, 9, 7 & 5, for Christmas ex wife follows the something you want, something you need, something to wear & something to read method of gift giving, so each child will get 4 gifts, as an example my 9 year old got

Want - slime
Need - swim goggles.
Wear- t shirt
Read- book (not sure what book)

I do not follow this method of gift giving, it was ex wife's turn to have the kids on Christmas day so today I celebrated Christmas with my gf, my parents, her parents, both sets of siblings & the kids, so as you can imagine there was a lot more gifts. Around July time my ex spoke to me and asked me to follow her method of gift giving, I told her I wouldn't be doing this as we just needed to agree to disagree and respect each other's ways of doing things, she wouldn't let it drop and we ended up having an argument resulting in me refusing to discuss the issue with her anymore, I collected the kids at 8am this morning and she asked to have a private word, she proceeded to once again bring the issue up and ask that I only give the children 4 gifts, I was in no mood to speak about this again so I just walked away.

Ex also doesn't do santa, In my house we do santa, not all the gifts are from him, just 1 gift and the stocking, it's just a bit of fun really. The kids had their gifts from me, 1 santa gift and then gifts from my parents and siblings, my gf and her family also got presents for them, it sounds like a lot but the kids each filled a box full of toys/books to donate to chairty at the end of novemeber to make room for new toys.

Kids have spoke to mum on the phone and she's now called me in a mood telling me how out of order I am and that I'm going against her wishes, now I've remained calm on this matter and bit my tongue, then eventually just refusing to speak about it but I've finally snapped today on the phone and told her that's she's just annoyed because I'm giving the kids a good Christmas whilst on Xmas day they sat at hers with nothing more than a tshirt and some slime (it's not a money issue, she has money) now I shouldn't have snapped but I was at braking point with her being controlling and trying to tell me how to raise my kids on my time (50/50 custody) she has now text me to say that the kids aren't to bring any of the presents they have received to her house and they have all to stay at mine permanently, the kids usually bring favourite items between houses so this is going to be an issue.

I don't even know what I'm asking, has anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice on how to move forward with this situation? My gf bought eldest some popular spray and skin items and I already know she's going to want to bring them between houses, no idea how to tell the kids they can't do this as it's their presents and they should be allowed to do as they please with them.

Why don’t they just take four things back if she’s so keen on four things? Something your eldest wants - skincare, needs - iPad…etc? Could that be a way round it?

I loosely follow the four things but, in reality, it’s only because I want everyone to have a book! Without that rule no books would ever appear on their lists 😂

This situation is bordering on cruelty. I would report your Ex wife's behaviour to social services OP. Anything that could potentially traumatise a young child & which could have have lasting effects on their mental health should be dealt with by professionals.

I can't believe your ex wife has me siding with a man! For that, she's very unreasonable.

And yes, she's unreasonable for trying to control your christmas.

Her rule is bizarre anyway. Let kids enjoy christmas, fgs.

I'd personally just tell the children what their Mother has said.

Don't cover for her ridiculous Christmas rules.

Let her deal with the fallout from the children.

I know you don't want to make your children upset but there's not a lot you can do.

Truth needs to be told to them.

Overreaction.

Mainly I think you are not being unreasonable. However my kids come home from their dads house with what I consider tat all the time and then they are upset if I want to throw away the multiple cheep broken toys etc. He also seems to like sending them home with marker pens, glitter and stickers that ruin my house. My kids have told me he won't let them play with that stuff there as it's his gf house and they can't make a mess. So depending what the gifts were I may change from not unreasonable to very unreasonable if you got messy tat.

I would also be livid if someone bought my 12 dd 'popular' skincare stuff. I think it's incredibly unhealthy and damaging to young girls.

Have you heard of parallel parenting? It sounds sensible for your situation. But ultimately you can't control her house just as she can't control you. So you celebrate Christmas however you like but you have no right to force her to accept the gifts she disapproves of into her house

So then the gifts should stay at dad's .

With four kids I think you've handled Christmas really well OP and I wouldn't be worrying about what your ex thinks. She's your ex and that's that.
As others have said, the children must come first, and she needs to stop being so controlling.

Your EX sounds like a miserable Scrooge. Slime, goggles, t-shirt and a book - sounds like a bit of a damp squib to be honest. Unless you are on a seriously tight budget then the only reason I can think of is that she wants to be seen as not being overly materialistic and is a bit of a virtue signaller. And if you shower the kids with lots of lovely presents it shows her up as being mean. Which sounds like what she is.

The 4 gift thing is great (I do it!) but her version of it sounds really mean!! Especially if there's no santa stocking!

Tell her you did stick to the 4 gifts but you can't control what other people buy.

If she doesn't want the kids to bring their toys then respect that but she needs to tell them.

My ex and I coparent with very different ways of life, and his attitude has always been reflected in what he buys for her. I wouldn’t dream of policing what dd brings between our homes, that’s so controlling and disrespectful of her ownership of her own possessions. What would it teach dd if I banned certain items from her home because I don’t like them? (Maybe with young kids you can explain about some things, like those Bratz dolls or a smartphone that one parent might see as being a negative influence or even harmful, but not many presents would fall into that category really and the children should generally be able to decide what they have in both their homes, otherwise they aren’t genuinely their possessions, are they?)

She thinks you need to respect what she does by copying her; but it’s disrespectful of her not to show the same courtesy. Why are her beliefs more important than yours about parenting?

Wrt what you say to the kids; I would be inclined to be honest with them. They can choose to smuggle things home or leave them safely at your house. Either that or she must tell them the rules for her house, and explain how she’s going to enforce it.

(You can do all this while not slagging off your ex or her choices, just say you don’t agree with her, and probably try to hold the moral high ground in future so she hasn’t got any ammunition to use against you.)

She does no get to dictate how you parent in your time, unless you are putting the children in danger.

I'd just tell her you refuse to entertain her rules and ideas. If you are amenable you could remind her that you do not tell her what to do, but I suspect it will fall on deaf ears. Or i'd laugh at her.

my brothers ex wife is one of these, the kids have learned to leave anything they love at their dads because if it goes home she might just throw it away for some random reason.. she doesn't like it, doesn't agree with it, or thinks they're too young, or outgrown it.. she doesn't give a fuck about their feelings on it.

The thing is, she's only damaging her relationship with them, and my DNiece can't stand her.. she's 16 soon and already told us she wants to live with her dad soon as she can move without her mom having any say in it.

I know my eldest will have a lot to say on the situation but honestly I'm really sad for the youngest two, they have spent all day playing at being parents to the monkeys, it walks, does tricks, speaks, you feed it, they will absolutely be devastated at not being allowed to being them back to their mums house. She used to buy the kids loads of toys etc for Christmas but the second she started following the American family on YouTube it all changed, now she does the 4 present gift.

This- just relay what she said. Let them argue with her on the phone and be the baddie.

One thing she will teach the kids to be is sneaky. At 12, I know I'd have been figuring out ways to sneak my stuff in and places to hide it. Luckily, I never needed to.
She can tell the kids they can't bring their presents home. If she wants to make that decision, she can enforce it.
I'd be quite concerned about her obsession with family vloggers. There are some out there with very problematic backgrounds/ideals/lifestyles. The "aspirational" side is nearly always utter bullshit.

I wonder what her side of the story is? Is she on a budget and can only afford 4 presents. Whereas you and your family seem to go over the top with indulgent present giving. Maybe she doesn’t want all the crap you have bought the kids taking up space in her home.

Not at all.

Family breakdown is traumatic for all concerned,especially the children involved. Adding fighting over gift choices is creating more anxiety which is upsetting & detrimental to a child's mental health in the long term.

Give an old Papa a break ! Sounds like her gift giving is very sensible and yours is fun. What a great balance and you’re keeping Santa and the fun alive.

You’re co parenting with 4 kids so if this is her biggest Christmas gripe then you’re doing well. She is being unreasonable and picky and controlling. She needs to move on with her life and accept that you run different households with different rules.

OP mentioned money is not an issue

I would continue to say ‘I respect your decision, but I DISAGREE. Swimming goggles, slime, a t-shirt and a book sounds really meagre, I want to spend more on my children. I’m sorry if that upsets you or you feel undermined, but we are all very fortunate and spoiling my children on Christmas Day is something I will do. We’re not talking quad bikes, laptops and Rolex’s for Christ sake. Sorry Jane, this is just one we’ll have to disagree on.’

I know some people are suggesting getting the kids to sneak items home but I don't feel comfortable with them feeling like they need to lie. Plus the monkeys speak so those couldn't be hid. They are kids who are excited about their presents, the youngest want item was a squishmallow, so the kids didn't really get anything to play with on Christmas day at their mums.

I can assure you that Social Services would not be remotely interested in this issue.

I could only afford one thing that my child really wanted - and a couple of small gifts. He was completely fine and pleased
and just overjoyed to be getting a watch. He knew I was on a budget and that he’s loved. I’m sure his Dad side of the family
will
buy him more
things and have also taken him on a fishing trip and holiday with all his cousins. I spent Christmas alone. I do not care. I care my kid is happy and gets the big family
experience. I care that he appreciates one gift that he really wanted and thought about and isn’t greedy or wasteful & was grateful.

I think people need to have more faith in children. They are smart and know that some people have more resources and give love in different ways.

I do not think gifts should be fought over. There’s nothing unsafe or extreme or cruel going on so what’s the issue. Just slightly different styles and values.

They most certainly would be if the children become affected to the point they aren't coping at school etc. It's about far more than the gift situation. It's the fighting between the EXs that's the problem