To go nuclear on my DB and SIL

[Upsetorjustpregnant]

Aghhh!!! Where do I start???
My two brothers and their families are home from abroad for Christmas for the first time in about 15 years. I live 10 minutes from my parents. We were all excited and had plans made. My Mum in particular was very excited. She was stressed too at the thought of having them all there with 7 extra people
in the house (in particular said SIL, as she can be tough work to have around constantly….just different views etc).
This brother and SIL and their kids landed late Saturday night and announced yesterday that they’re actually going away for the few days over Christmas.
My Mum text me last night to say they wouldn’t be around for our Christmas Eve dinner, which I was hosting for everyone. She’s very upset. As am I. I was awake all night thinking of it. I haven’t actually seen them yet as they landed late Saturday night, and we were at a party for my husband’s family yesterday. I’ll be going to my parents house in the next hour or so and feel like letting loose at my DB and SIL.
my SIL doesn’t celebrate Christmas which we respect, bar the presents and the food we don’t celebrate the religious side of it.
Like why come home at Christmas time and then not sit through a bloody family dinner. And make a point of it by booking time away two nights after they land?!!?!?!?

There is always so much - everyone should do whatever they want for Christmas, it's their choice - on mumsnet with very little regard to the needs of older parents. I always wonder how these people will feel in the future when their ds's and wives leave them alone at Christmas because it's their choice. Of course it's "their choice" - that doesn't make it right.
OP if it's the first time in 15 years it probably meant a huge amount to your mum. I would be going nuclear too. Why not? There's nothing left to ruin.

Awful behaviour from your brother.
Really awful.

I would make it crystal clear to HIM that he has really upset and hurt his mother.

Then I wouldn't say anymore.
But I really wouldn't be making any further effort with such selfish people.

They should have made their alternative plans clear.
Very unkind not to, particularly for your mum.

This is on your brother, remember that. Its his mother.

Going against the graon here but yanbu and i am surprised so many think you are. You presumably carry the weight of day to day responsibility for your mum - making sure she is not lonely at christmas, listenig to her stress about visitors etc. And ypur DB amd family can't suck up one christmas in 15 years where it is not all about them. And to announce it last minute too. Yes you might have assumed, but if you were visiting family abroad over christmas perhaps it is on you to memtion you won't actually be there for the key parts

But you all find her difficult to be around and your mum was stressing about hosting her. You were all bracing to tolerate one day with her. I get that it's sad that you won't see your brother on Christmas day, but her not being there should be a relief, surely?

Be careful not to assume that it's her and not at least equally if not entirely his idea for them to spend Christmas day elsewhere. Maybe he feels the awkwardness and doesn't feel like dealing with it this year. Even if it is fully her idea, the responsibility to either say no, seeing family is important to me, or to communicate it with his family in good time is down to your brother, not her.

Though like someone else pointed out. What’s the odds they they managed to just book something for Christmas this late.

More like it was always booked and just nobody told mum.

This! I really don't think it's unreasonable to assume if someone is travelling to stay with you over Christmas that they would be there for the big event even if they weren't religiously inclined/belonged to another religion (I presume no one is insisting she goes to church).

Well that is a reach. Plenty of people tolerate less than perfect family dynamics at christmas. Just because there might be moments of strain doesn't mean you never want to spend any time together. Or that you shouldn't suck it up occasionally for your dh's sake.

@Upsetorjustpregnant Are your DB and family actually staying with your Mum or you while they are here? How long are they in this country for? That makes a difference to the situation, in my view?

Well its not clear whether you or your family communicated the plans you have for Christmas to your brother.

However, that cuts both ways.

If I were travelling to my 'home' area for 5 days but would only be available to see family on 1-2 days I would make that very clear in advance.

Without knowing more details, it's not possible to say whether you're being unreasonable or not. How far away do your brothers and their families live? If it's the other side of the world, for example, then I imagine they're visiting for at least 10 days, if not longer. And presumably they are seeing you all at other times during the course of their visit? Was it agreed in advance they would spend Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with you, or did you and your mum just make that assumption? As for why they came 'home' at Christmas, most people travel at Christmas time because that's when the children are off school and work slows down. I can imagine if I had travelled somewhere I hadn't been in 10 years, and I saw a place or event that my family would enjoy on Christmas day, I would take them to that and see extended family (who don't like me and freely describe me as 'tough to have around') at another time. The trip itself would be the big thing; seeing extended family would be secondary.

The difference is you all know this in advance. To say you are going to fly home on Dec 21st, go to your mams house and fly home X date, then announce on the 22nd that you arent actually staying in your mams throughout your visit is rude and odd tbh.
Obviously the brothers knows they will have been counted in in terms of food shop and plans when there was no mention of not being in the area Xmas eve to boxing day

We need more info here.

If it’s 2 brothers, at least one sister in law and some DC rocking up to stay with grandma, and then treating her like a free bed and breakfast, and dashing off for the most important holiday for many people in the Western calendar, then that is shockingly rude.

Phone her up today or tomorrow to make it clear that you don't want her to ask for other people's presents or tell people to eat less so that she can have left overs because it's rude, offensive & makes others uncomfortable.
If there are left overs you, the host, will be keeping them for the following day so you can have a chilled day after hosting.

I'd also follow up with a text saying the same so she can't deny or misunderstand the conversation.

If she says anything on the day shut her down- SIL we had this conversation yesterday, stop that sort of talk right now.

If she throws a strop & says you're being rude the response is "not as rude as you"
If she threatens to not come do not give in to her "that's your choice, I'm just being clear on acceptable behaviour in advance. If you can't be considerate towards others it's probably best you don't come. If you change you mind let me know by X time, otherwise have a good day" and follow up with a text to her & DB saying the same thing.

The texts cover you - people like ghat tend to change the story to make others the villan.

Completely depends on whether

(1) they knew which specific events were planned (e.g., the Xmas eve dinner at your house), said they'd be there, and have now changed their minds. Within their "rights", but most people would view this as inconsiderate.
(2) they knew events were planned and that they were invited/expected, but had not said they would (or would not) come. Possibly also inconsiderate, but less clear. However, if they are staying with your parents, they should have said they'd be away.
(3) they did not know what specific events were planned, and had just discussed generally that they would see the family when they were "home" (which I assume is true, as they'll be at your parents' when you go?) Likely not their fault, but I'd still give them a warning that there's been upset.

Whichever, I would try to discuss this with your brother in private and let him know that at the least, there's been miscommunication and/or a difference in expectations. While going away may be your SIL's idea and preference, he must have agreed to it - and he's the one who'll have the much better idea about how communication works and what might have been expected about "coming home for Christmas" within your family. If they've behaved badly here, or been inconsiderate, he should have prevented that.

I don't understand the posters saying "it's their choice". I mean sure it is. So is murder and child abuse and stealing.

I am 100% with you - i have family who live abroad and who often do trips within Europe but it's all clearly discussed in advance.

I think it is profoundly hurtful to announce you are coming to your home country for the Christmas period then fuck off for Christmas eve and Christmas day. Especially if they don't celebrate it - those days have no meaning for them, surely? But they know they are meaningful to the rest of you.

Your elderly mum was looking forward to a rare Christmas with all 3 of her children and she's lost that days before it happens - once arrangements have been made and food purchased. Expensive food at a high cost of living time.

I'm so sorry. Don't go nuclear, it will just make everything worse. But make it clear how much this has hurt your mum and ask if plans can be rearranged.

Had you actually agreed your plans with SIL or had you just assumed they were fine? In the end it's their choice what to do - I feel for your Mum but do wonder if you've organised lots of things assuming they would take part...

Had you communicated with them and arranged things with them or had you just assumed they would be around all the time?

Had day by day plans actually been agreed with everyone, or just assumed? As I think that’s key. If nobody has explicitly said we are all having Xmas lunch here, someone else is hosting then etc then it’s tricky. Just saying ‘we will have Xmas at mums’ doesn’t mean they are definitely joining.
Or they could just be being selfish and thoughtless..

Two can play at that game. Tell them you're all busy on the days they were supposed to be staying over and visiting you and your mum, that they'll have to find their own accomodation. Forget about them, people like that aren't worth bothering with. Enjoy your Christmas with the family members who can be arsed to stick to the plans they agreed, everyone will be happier.

I also suspect that if DB and wife had agreed to come to this dinner then that detail would probably be shared in the OP?

Exactly, that would have been at least the first and most pertinent information to be given in the first post if they had agreed.

With the way OP is putting most if not all of the blame on SIL who doesn’t celebrate Christmas, betting they made assumptions vs DB actually saying they were coming.

Will never understand some families that must have everyone at Christmas Day meal but can’t be happy seeing them the days before as if other family members aren’t allowed to have their own traditions and want to do their own thing for the day.

So you were expecting both db's families, yours and your parents to eat together and do Christmas day. Had that been communicated and agreed ? How well do you even know sil and db ? It sounds as if expectations were high and disappointment inevitable. Let them spend a few days away and see them before/after.

In those circumstances I think I would choose not to see them either. Unless there is a backstory about issues with your parents it feels very cruel. Yes people have choices and can do what they want, doesn't mean you have to silently put up with it.

Like everyone else has said, the key information is missing here.

Had they actually been invited (and confirmed they were coming) to the Christmas Eve dinner? Or had you just assumed they would?

Why are you only blaming your SiL? Does your brother not have a hand in decisions mostly affecting his family, or is he as weak and lacking in autonomy as people too often assume men are?