To go nuclear on my DB and SIL

[Upsetorjustpregnant]

Aghhh!!! Where do I start???
My two brothers and their families are home from abroad for Christmas for the first time in about 15 years. I live 10 minutes from my parents. We were all excited and had plans made. My Mum in particular was very excited. She was stressed too at the thought of having them all there with 7 extra people
in the house (in particular said SIL, as she can be tough work to have around constantly….just different views etc).
This brother and SIL and their kids landed late Saturday night and announced yesterday that they’re actually going away for the few days over Christmas.
My Mum text me last night to say they wouldn’t be around for our Christmas Eve dinner, which I was hosting for everyone. She’s very upset. As am I. I was awake all night thinking of it. I haven’t actually seen them yet as they landed late Saturday night, and we were at a party for my husband’s family yesterday. I’ll be going to my parents house in the next hour or so and feel like letting loose at my DB and SIL.
my SIL doesn’t celebrate Christmas which we respect, bar the presents and the food we don’t celebrate the religious side of it.
Like why come home at Christmas time and then not sit through a bloody family dinner. And make a point of it by booking time away two nights after they land?!!?!?!?

Agree with this. The last minute announcement is unkind and upsetting. I’d have a word, albeit calmly.

And I'm guessing that if they had said: "TBH we're planning to stay with you but bugger off on the holiday days" beforehand they would know they'd upset the mum. So they figured, mention it after we're there and we'll just wing it.

I notice OP hasn't been back to answer any further questions?

I'm just wondering where you have differences of opinion?

I mean my family have differences of opinion. Some of them side with Harvey Weinstein, because the women were still getting something out of it. Others think we should shoot people coming in on small boats on the beaches. I'm not keen on spending Christmas with them either 😕

I'd react with silence. They want a reaction, don't give them one.

I wouldn't go round today, say you have been called in to work.

And do not give them presents.

Let them go.on their holiday with zero fanfare.

I'm guessing you also don't use them for accommodation when it's convenient either.

You have history and beef with her.

”in particular said SIL, as she can be tough work to have around constantly….just different views etc).”

She’s already decided she doesn’t want to spend time with any of you due to being tough work and holding different views as per your OP. You have judged her already and found her wanting so she’s not playing in part in this and has removed herself.

Its her holiday too.

The fact you feel like going ‘nuclear’ says it all. It’s the world according to OP and that’s final. No others views tolerated.

It sounds as if they had led your mum to expect that they would be staying with her for the duration, so it's a bit rude to be telling her now, after she's probably bought extra food in and planned around that. If they'd told her earlier, it sounds as if she might actually have been relieved to have them for a shorter visit.

I think the point that needs to be made is that they should be clear in advance about what their plans are, and realise that others may be planning around their visit.

Of course, it's possible that when they arrived they realised how stressful it might be for your mum to have so many extras in the house, and changed plans accordingly - although obviously not having thought about how that comes across at this point.

If OP is hosting Christmas Eve dinner, wouldn’t they all be going to her home, not the parents’?

I agree it would be rude if they’re staying at the parents’ house and Christmas Eve dinner is being held there, but not if it is being hosted at OP’s home, even more so if OP’s dislike of her SIL is so obvious to her brother and SIL.

They’re spending time with his mum and family not completely avoiding them and if this is the only time they visited in years, they may have other people and things they would like to do instead of see only his side. They came in Saturday night so it’s two full days and maybe the afternoon, and OP hasn’t said if they’re coming back around, doubt she knows since it doesn’t sound like she has even talked to her DB much in the first place.

Were they aware that you are hosting everyone and did they agree to it?

If they did and then decided to cancel last minute, that's very rude!

If you didn't tell them beforehand then I guess it's their choice how they spend their Christmas. Although if it was me, I would have communicated my plans well beforehand so no one is upset.

Well none of you actually appear to have invited them to anything - just assumed they'd turn up. And your SIL is not doubt very much aware that you all dislike her. So why would she want to play "happy families" with you? It's also interesting that she is getting the blame. I assume your brother can think for himself and must also not be keen on the idea, since he's part of the arrangements.

I’m wondering that too.

When I first read it I thought DB and SIL were awful for making plans with them and then cancelling last minute.

But actually I’m wondering if they never made these plans and had intended to go away the entire time but OP and mum just disagree with them.

They are staying with family for several days - they simply chose to have a few days elsewhere. That is hardly using people for accommodation. There's no evidence that they knew about or were invited to any special family dinner, so why would the mindread where they were supposed to be at any given moment?

I may feel obliged to visit my husbands mum if we lived in Austrailia. I'd very likely ask my husband for some firebreaks as a compromise - it sounds like SIL and MIL have been organising their trip without consulting them - so they have opted out. To me it's clear the OP (SIL) and MIL have beef with the DIL. It's not uncommon for this dynamic to exist. The fact she is considering going nuclear may be putting the visitors on eggshells, hence them going away.

We currently only have one side of the story, with resounding silence upon further questioning.

I would tend to agree with @Catza here.
I really don't think getting mad/angry/nuclear will actually achieve anything. In fact it may further back up some sort of idea that your SiL has about the family that she married in to, so I'd be looking to give as little ammunition to her as possible.

I would have a word with DB though and say that your mum is really upset and disappointed that the meal that she has arranged has been shelved for some other event that he's only letting them know about at the last minute.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had planned the whole thing between them and decided that letting you all know last minute was going to be the easiest option (for them) if there may have been the chance that there would have been "Can't you please change your plans?" type discussions in the run up to their travelling over.

Whatever you decide to do, make the most of it and I'd just let DB and SiL slot in and not make any accommodations for them when they get back and do end up spending time with you all.

It sounds like they want to get away from the busy house and spend time away from people who don't really like sister in law, good for them.

For crying out loud, because it's Christmas? When I've noticed many people around the world seem to "special family dinners."

Imagine if they'd been staying and they hadn't been invited - "You didn't tell us what your plans were."

People here would be saying, are you kidding me, you fly over from wherever, you're STAYING, and not included in the plans? Did they really imagine they wouldn't be included?

As someone who lives a long way from my family I can tell you it is very difficult and stressful to go home for a holiday and to find that multiple plans have been made for you, your time and scheduling taken up and you spend all your time sitting on other peoples sofas and being told what you are doing one day to the next. It's stressful and tiring. When I go home I want to see my parents, and have a lunch or two with some friends. I don't want to see very extended family, and I seriously doubt they are bothered about seeing me either. I can feel like a performing seal as my mother variously arranges drinks or a 'surprise dinner' (following the surprise welcome at the airport), then moans about how I did not manage to squeeze in a trip to see a third cousin who lives 2 hours away and who apparently was 'dying' to see me. I often just want to see the people who matter most, take a break, collect my thoughts and my breath and then see a few others. Not be micromanaged into multiple events.

The last time I went home I agreed to one family lunch where people were welcome to come if they wished, but no expectations. Behind my back I got railroaded into being carted around here and there mostly seeing my mother's friends who were apparently desparate to see me and the whole time for me and my 2 Dcs was instead of chilling with the grandparents at the beach or the pool we spent every day in a car going somewhere to see someone else. It was hellish and put me off returning at all tbh.

So I would be asking what others have asked- were all these family events agreed with? They are staying with your parents anyway so they have covered the most important base. Anything else is a bonus.

This is the person's mum and sister, not an extended family. And they are staying over the Christmas holidays.

I say this as someone whose family lives abroad too.

If they were not planning to have the XMAS meal with the family they are staying with it's obvious they should have said.

They didn't say because they knew it would upset the hosts or they are totally obliviously rude.

Then don't stay with them or come at another time of year.

MN is the only place in existence where people behave really shittily and yet posters pop up defending their behaviour. Makes you wonder what their own is like....

OP I would message your DB and just say you wish they'd let you know their plans as the whole family had assumed their attendance and you have planned/shopped accordingly. And it's incredibly rude to stay with people over Christmas then announce you're not spending time with them.

What's the relevance of this story to the OP's post? She's talking about her close family, her brother and their mother, not some random third cousin or parents' friends.

I often just want to see the people who matter most

Exactly. The OP thinks, quite rightly, that her mother should be one of 'the people who matter most' to her brother at Christmas.

The relevance is that I am explaining how it feels to be micromanaged and to have plans made all around you when you have no input and often no awareness of those plans being made and other peoples expectations of you. I am giving my personal experience of it, so the OP might think about it from her SIL and DBs perspective.

Plus they are staying with the mother, so hardly not seeing her.

I agree. Always ask yourself what you stand to gain by any confrontation. What exactly is it that you want from that person?

The 'all guns blazing' approach is one way in which you're guaranteed not to get it. No one achieves others' cooperation in that way, and as they reach maturity most people realise it.

And even if they do temporarily get their own way, there's a pressure point coming in the future when the other party tires of capitulating. This might well result in a scorched earth approach and an irreconcilable breach in the family. People are simply not this weak or malleable - at least not forever.

Worth it? Calm discussion and compromise is a lot more effective. As is not automatically blaming the woman for everything. It's a radical concept on this site, I know, but men do have autonomy over their decisions and minds of their own.

Right.

OP doesn’t even say she talked to her DB or ever has about Christmas plans in the first place.

She doesn’t say that they agreed to come and everything she seems to know is from her mum.

I did a trip to see my family this past summer after 10+ years with DD1. It was months of discussion including my DSis who I’m not even close with.

Saying that, my own mum was an issue because she had made plans for me without actually discussing and confirming them with me. My dad had to intervene after she snapped at me for asking a question about times because I wanted to accommodate my cousin (dad’s side) while waiting for sister/my aunt and cousin (mum’s side) to sort themselves out (spent time and went to the dinner with them the night before). Cousin and I were gone maybe 75 minutes and was still able to spend more time with aunt and cousin and then me remembering why I don’t and not likely going to be seeing them again anytime soon. My mum used the reason that they had travelled up to see me and my dad pointed out that I travelled too (six time zones) and was simply trying to accommodate as many people as I could.