Would your children prefer it if you didn't work?

[DonaldGumbo]

this is not a benefit bashing thread

As I am rushing around, trying to do two more days at work, buy last minute presents, food shop, tidy the house for guests etc, a thought came to me.
I know a couple. Neither work due to various reasons. They have a very different life to me (they hardly do anything which costs any money). They have one child. Don't drive.
Their Christmas looks so chilled. No rushing. No big events. No trying to get to shops or carol services or ice skating. Just time with each other. No stressed mum barking at them.
Which made me think? If we asked our DC's would they choose their current way of life or more time with both parents? Imagine having both mum and dad pick you up and what a lovely relationship you could have with your children to both see them every day from half past three with no distractions. Would it be better for their mental health? Would it mean less relationship breakdown?
I am a single parent so this life would be very hard for me to achieve; but I think if I asked my kids would you give up our house, holidays, extracurricular activities, toys, devices, subscriptions etc to have me there every day and be less distracted, they would say yes!
I know I could cut my hours but it's not the same. My work is relentless and I'd end up doing it anyway and not getting paid.

My kids love that we both don't work. They are 8 and 10.

DH and I did 40+ years in our careers and have taken the decision to retire early to focus on giving the kids SAH parents. We also chose to have kids later in life so that it fitted in with financial security.

I used to do very early starts and be away for work. They hated it as I was always starting sentences with ' I can't take you to school this morning as I've got a Teams call...'. They actually reminded me of that the other day.

I feel very lucky to be in this position and loving being a SAHM retried mum.

They know all about the careers we had and the places we've been in the world, so they are motivated to do the same. So no embarassment, quite the opposite ☺️

I actually think my kids have it pretty good. We both work and earn about £4k combined a month, DH does permanent nights i work 28.75hrs a week condensed into 2 or 3 12.5hr shifts. I'm home a lot and he can do pick ups and drop offs as necessary. I've recently been talking to my kids about whether they would like me to stop working weekends and do more Monday-Friday hours instead. It'd be a drop in pay and mean I'm around less during the week but now they are all in school we'd have more time at weekends.

To be honest I don't find Christmas very stressful. I do my present and food shopping online. We have a very small extended family; my children have 1 set of grandparents, 1 uncle and 1 great Aunt who we try to see at some point in the Christmas period, some for a whole day and some just for an hour or two. I tend to be very led by my kids in the holidays, I'll suggest trips out or places we can go but if they don't want to or they fancy a day at home then we'll do that instead. We dont earn enough to be taking kids out on big trips that often so we spend a lot of time relaxing. My eldest is 9 and she has never been ice skating although we have taken them to see Santa every year. I often find there is a lot of pressure on kids at this time of year to find everything magical and have the best day out ever, which is obviously not realistic.

You can still work and have time with your kids. Once my son was born I dedicated a year or so to applying for more flexible jobs. I now work in school hours then make the time up over the weekend and un the evenings when he is in bed or at play dates to bring my hours to full time. Get groceries delivered. Drop him off and pick him up from school every day. I know it isn't possible in every line of work, but giving up work isn't the only option if you want to have lots of time with your kids. Works well for me!

I don’t think the working/ not working is the issue.

Their Christmas looks so chilled. No rushing. No big events. No trying to get to shops or carol services or ice skating. Just time with each other. No stressed mum barking at them.

I think it’s buying into the vision that Christmas has to be this consumerist rally full of ‘doing things’ and keeping up with the Jones’ if you don’t actually want to.

My mum was like that at Christmas, trying to make everything perfect, and all I ever wanted was for her to stop putting pressure in herself to do all this trivial things and just sit down and spend time with me.

Don’t think your children would be better off with you not working, especially as a single mum - unless you want to raise children whose idea of adult life is not having to work. It’s a hard lifestyle to fund without significant inherited wealth.

I had a friend at sixth form whose mum didn’t work and my friend spoke so disparagingly of her. “I don’t know what she does all day, she even has a cleaner.” And she def looked down on her mum.

Same here. One of mine once said something about me working (3 days) - I pointed out what we would not have if I didn’t work. He never said it again. Now he’s 24 I can’t see him thinking either he or his GF should stay home if they have DC.

We are currently in that position as I'm a sahm and DH has just been made redundant.

I'm sure dc would hate it if I went back to work, they are very attached to me and we do loads of fun stuff. I don't think they are happier with DH at home all the time (neither of us are either!) as we are obviously worried about money and he's spending working hours job hunting. When he was working he often worked from home anyway. It was nice that he is able to play with dc whilst I make dinner - if he had a job with long hours I would find things a bit more stressful.

If both me & DH were home all the time with nothing to do till pick up time I'm fairly sure we'd end up getting divorced so not sure that would make our kids happy.

How does this work in practice though, do they not work at all, if so where does their money come from?

It’s possible to work less if you make alternative lifestyle choices to the mainstream, but then you accept things which many people would not want. For example if you live in a van or on a boat, you could have much much lower monthly outgoings but you would balance that against the need to sort out water, sewage waste, power and so on. You would have a lot less space. Most people would not want the compromises that living voluntarily on such a reduced income would bring.

I think we would all find it miserable and stressful not having much money. I don’t think our children would have chosen to lose most of the nice days out, holidays, material things and opportunities that they have, to have both of us not working. I grew up very poor and it was miserable and stressful.

However, I’m a SAHM and my partner works which works really well for us. The kids have me around all the time, their dad’s job has always been very flexible, he works at home now and he earns a great salary so I think we have things very good. No real stress, money for nice stuff and the kids see lots of both of us.

I can’t imagine thinking both of us staying at home was an option if it meant not having much money. I suppose if money was no object, then it would be different, but to both not work and not do anything which costs money, just to have both parents around full time seems odd.

This.

Plus also they would prefer a working mum who is happy and fulfilled and has good mental health than one who is unhappy staying at home.

I think it’s stress rather than work which is the problem and of course work is (or can be) a source of stress. MN seems to like to see work as a cure all for many things (any woman struggling with the grind of small children or loneliness of maternity leave is ordered back to work full time with no thought to any impact on the children.) It rarely seems to consider that work can be a massive eroder of self esteem and source of stress.

With that said, the biggest source of stress and all societal ills is poverty and work can be a route out of that.

I would massively prefer it if I didn’t work and I’m sure my children would in the short term but I do have to consider their long term needs as well as the short term. So I work. I hate it though.

Don't think this is a healthy example for the children though - where do they think money comes from?
Am all for having a simpler life, so you don't need so much money....
Think it is lovely to have parents around as much as possible, particularly when children aren't being pushed from pillar to post!

I’m sorry but this is the kind of unscientific bollocks certain types of SAHPs parrot about working parents when they don’t really understand. “Look more frazzled” indeed. Is there a frazzled scale where you can measure this? Who is to say working makes you more “frazzled” than being skint?

I have never not worked. My daughter is absolutely used to me working and thinks it’s completely normal. If I chucked it all in just to be sitting around at home and reduced the household budget by 80% she would absolutely not thank me.

Anyone romanticizing poverty because it gives people time to sit around doing more of nothing has missed the point of life and is not being a great role model to their children.

I once mentioned to my two girls early teens that some people tried to make mum’s feel guilty for working. They were baffled by this. It had never entered their heads that me working was negative, and never felt that they weren’t a priority. They were happy with their childcare (nursery/childminder/grandparents) and just considered it normal and not worthy of comment.

I do know SAHM that insist their DC want them at home and that their DC would hate wrap around care. But they don’t actually know any different so how would they know that’d hate it? As long as children are loved and have their needs are met they will be happy with whatever logistics for family life are in place.

DH and I were both raised by at home mums until about 13 but neither of us felt this was valuable enough to give up an income for.

@sleetandwind I agree that work can be a source of stress. But so can being with your children all the time.

The trick is to find the right balance.

I mentor women returning from maternity leave at my organisation and the main thing I tell them is that they need to figure out the balance of work and children that works for them personally, embrace it and not feel the guilt in either direction. And keep an eye on it as it can change over time.

I don't agree that Mumsnet is as pro work as you say - I think there's a massive "precious moments" crew of SAHMs posting with the "on your deathbed, you won't wish you worked more" type comment

I think it's a huge assumption to assume that everyone who is a SAH parent is living in poverty or just scraping by.

We're teaching our kids that you work your socks off when you're young, get yourself financially stable and then you have choices. My DS is already thinking about investments and passive income and he's 10. I don't want to teach my kids that you're only on this planet to work, rather that you make your money work for you.

I came from a single parent family and very much had a plan from a young age to be financially independent, so put everything into pushing myself as hard as I could when I didn't have responsibility.

Equally I do understand there are those living in poverty who may chose not to work but that isn't representative of all SAH parents. There's a whole spectrum of personal circumstances.

Not mine. She’s 4, I changed my working hours so I could drop off & pick up 3x days a week, shared an after-school nanny with her friend for the remaining 2 days so she had some flexibility to go to the park, chill out etc, and she goes to breakfast club on those 2 days.

Nanny took 2 weeks hols recently, which coincided with a busy period at work so DD ended up in breakfast and ASC club 4 days a week which she absolutely loved, so that’s what we’re doing after Christmas (albeit dropping a day down to 3 days per week).

Loved playing with kids of different ages at ASC, seeing her friends from other classes & drawing at breakfast club. Cried most morning when I dropped her off directly to class, and I got a delightful “oh, it’s you. I don’t want you to pick me up” when I collected her.

Research suggests that, on the whole, sons and daughters of working mothers appear to thrive contrary to popular belief, with daughters benefiting most from the positive role model of a mother with a career. And one thing which would improve kids mental health isn’t mum being at the school gates religiously from 3pm, but not being thrown into to world of social media and everything the internet can show them at the age of 9.

Yes, I'm sure they would. I'd like to not work too sometimes (but still have money to do fun things), but that's just not an option.

My DC would also like to not go to school some days - some things in life are not optional!

My dc is an only child and much as we love the family time we have, he benefited loads from nursery and afterschool club and afterschool sports. I definitely wouldn’t be as good company as his friends are for running around the park or pitch at 3:30 on a dark winter afternoon.
cosy afternoons baking or crafting sound good in theory but my son after school wanted to run and play and unless I had arranged so many daily play dates I might as well be a childminder - he was better off in afterschool care.

I’m lucky that my DM does 3.30 pick up once a week and I can manage my hours so I can do pick up once a week and go to park with DC friends. DC would love never to go to after school club as doesn’t enjoy it after long school day.

It’s not just about hours spent together though it’s also how I spend those hours - I would love to feel more rested and not have to juggle all the housework with DH in non working hours and be more present with DC.

We both work full time about half from home. I don’t think we’d do well just knocking around the house though we all get cabin fever.

i think my kids and I would be a lot more stressed if we were homeless, and couldn’t afford to eat, so no!

We work to pay our way and afford to spend quality time together during the weekends and holidays.

I work as I want my children to appreciate that women can and should be equal contributing members of society and that there is a whole life for them outside of domestic drudgery.

Quality over quantity every time.

Mine think they would like me not to work, BUT - i was recently unemployed for about x4 months, and I was so stressed and bored that I was a different person. I'm a better wife and mother when I work.

What they would like is for me to win the lottery and not work! Then I'd be pretty chilled out and have unlimited money for outings etc.

They might like having you around but it's not exactly setting a good example, is it. How do you explain to them that mum and dad don't work, but they are going to have to. (Obvious reasons for not working like ill health notwithstanding, of course.)

I think it's ideal that children see both mum and dad working, in order to earn money to pay for things they want and need. Not necessarily both full time, in fact I think both part time is best so both do some childcare and housework.

Personally being able to afford activities and nice days out massively improves our lives as a family. I'd hate to be stuck at home all the time.

I was lucky enough that I had grandparents working around my parents when I was a kid so that I spent my free time in the hub of the home and among family or out to my own hobbies.

I wanted to achieve something like that for my own children but in the absence of available grandparents I chose to be a sahm when they were little and I wfh pt now they're older.

Yes, I know they prefer it. But so do I - it's an easy, peaceful, stress-free life but it's only available because DH is on board with this life too.