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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you can't go over the top at Christmas in these circumstances

374 replies

starlymarly · 21/12/2024 13:19

Some context first, DH and I have one DD, she's now 22 but when she was 18 she entered into a relationship with a man who was 16 years older we were not happy about this, she was on her gap year, she was a bright girl, AAAB at a-level, a place at uni waiting for her. It was the Covid year so she decided to wait and go to uni the next year and spend the year working.
Anyway she met this man, 16 years older. The relationship spiralled very quickly and within a couple of months DD was pregnant and insisting she would be keeping the baby and moving in with him. Soon after that she was going to be moving back to his home country with him which she did not long after our DGD was born.
We were walking a tightrope, we were devastated this is what our DDs life had become but equally keen not to be too loud as she was pushing us away more and more.
For the last 2 and a half years the relationship with our DD was nothing more than some text messages, pictures and a FaceTime once every 3/4 months. We'd make plans to visit, book flights and then something would come up and she couldn't possibly see us. It was heartbreaking and we knew something wasn't right but there wasn't much we could do. She always refused to give us an exact address of where she was staying and I knew if we pushed too hard she'd shut us off completely.
Anyway fast forward to last month. DD called me sobbing saying she was in a hotel with DGD and he'd booked flights back to the uk for her for not the next day but the day after that. He had been cheating and the relationship had been very abusive, this was the first time DD had said it out loud to us. He then basically told her he wanted her gone and not to see her again. He let her bring sentimental things (DGDs first shoes or picture albums etc.) and some clothes, but no toys and not enough clothes for anyone to live in.

We borrowed a car seat and picked DD and DGD up from the airport. This was all about 4 weeks ago now. We are in a position to help DD, we have a small 2 bed rental and the last tenants had just moved out, so we are redecorating it for DD now. We have gotten her therapy, DGD enrolled in nursery at a lovely local prep school and a place offered for reception next year which we will fund and we are helping DD with reapplying to uni.

Now the issue, between DD and I we have gone wild on DGD Christmas. She has more or less nothing here. We picked up some small bits which she plays with now but no big toys. I don't want to count how much I've spent as it must be crazy.
We've got a bike and scooter, dolls house and all the accessories, play kitchen and play food, baby doll, with pram/highchair etc. My sister who lives in America is bringing her an American Girl Doll over as a gift from her. We've bought Lottie Dolls and Disney Princess dolls, dressing up clothes, books, so many books and then little things like playdoh, puzzles and magnetic play sets.

DH thinks we've way over done it, left nothing for her to get in the future and set an expectation that Christmas will always be like this. I think in the awful circumstances and the fact she has nothing at all really means we can't over do it this year.
Obviously it will be a lot to open so we are just going to put the play food in the kitchen or the furniture in the dolls house so it's one item rather than 5/6.

But AIBU to say we can't over do it this year? Her birthday isn't for months so it makes more sense to ensure she has lots of toys to play with now.

OP posts:
wizzywig · 21/12/2024 14:25

Please be wary of what gets posted online or info that is shared. Dv perps do not like seeing their victims happy.

Original poster
starlymarly · 21/12/2024 14:25

Thank you everyone. I think we will try to spread it out but Christmas will still be a lot more than normal. Kitchen and dress up clothes at the new house will remove a good bulk of it and perhaps the Lottie Dolls can be saved. DH is excited for the bike and it doesn't need to be opened or interacted with immediately (she can see it and sit on it etc. without the immediate expectation of unwrapping it and wanting to play with it). The scooter we might leave outside the front door and say ohh look Father Christmas has brought you a scooter too would you like to ride it to church to make it again a little less pressured than opening it.

Really only leaves the dolls house as a big gift and the others she can unwrap as she feels like it.

OP posts:
devongirl12 · 21/12/2024 14:26

I wouldn't overthink it.

The main thing is your daughter is now out of an awful situation and you are in a position to help.

All sounds good to me.

Don't go looking for issues.

BlueSilverCats · 21/12/2024 14:26

starlymarly · 21/12/2024 13:19

Some context first, DH and I have one DD, she's now 22 but when she was 18 she entered into a relationship with a man who was 16 years older we were not happy about this, she was on her gap year, she was a bright girl, AAAB at a-level, a place at uni waiting for her. It was the Covid year so she decided to wait and go to uni the next year and spend the year working.
Anyway she met this man, 16 years older. The relationship spiralled very quickly and within a couple of months DD was pregnant and insisting she would be keeping the baby and moving in with him. Soon after that she was going to be moving back to his home country with him which she did not long after our DGD was born.
We were walking a tightrope, we were devastated this is what our DDs life had become but equally keen not to be too loud as she was pushing us away more and more.
For the last 2 and a half years the relationship with our DD was nothing more than some text messages, pictures and a FaceTime once every 3/4 months. We'd make plans to visit, book flights and then something would come up and she couldn't possibly see us. It was heartbreaking and we knew something wasn't right but there wasn't much we could do. She always refused to give us an exact address of where she was staying and I knew if we pushed too hard she'd shut us off completely.
Anyway fast forward to last month. DD called me sobbing saying she was in a hotel with DGD and he'd booked flights back to the uk for her for not the next day but the day after that. He had been cheating and the relationship had been very abusive, this was the first time DD had said it out loud to us. He then basically told her he wanted her gone and not to see her again. He let her bring sentimental things (DGDs first shoes or picture albums etc.) and some clothes, but no toys and not enough clothes for anyone to live in.

We borrowed a car seat and picked DD and DGD up from the airport. This was all about 4 weeks ago now. We are in a position to help DD, we have a small 2 bed rental and the last tenants had just moved out, so we are redecorating it for DD now. We have gotten her therapy, DGD enrolled in nursery at a lovely local prep school and a place offered for reception next year which we will fund and we are helping DD with reapplying to uni.

Now the issue, between DD and I we have gone wild on DGD Christmas. She has more or less nothing here. We picked up some small bits which she plays with now but no big toys. I don't want to count how much I've spent as it must be crazy.
We've got a bike and scooter, dolls house and all the accessories, play kitchen and play food, baby doll, with pram/highchair etc. My sister who lives in America is bringing her an American Girl Doll over as a gift from her. We've bought Lottie Dolls and Disney Princess dolls, dressing up clothes, books, so many books and then little things like playdoh, puzzles and magnetic play sets.

DH thinks we've way over done it, left nothing for her to get in the future and set an expectation that Christmas will always be like this. I think in the awful circumstances and the fact she has nothing at all really means we can't over do it this year.
Obviously it will be a lot to open so we are just going to put the play food in the kitchen or the furniture in the dolls house so it's one item rather than 5/6.

But AIBU to say we can't over do it this year? Her birthday isn't for months so it makes more sense to ensure she has lots of toys to play with now.

I understand your reasoning and your daughter's. All the feelings and emotions that come with it too. I honestly get it.

However, you're trying to make up for 4 years in just a few days. That will be incredibly overwhelming for your little granddaughter. Way too much, in a short space of time. She won't be able to fully enjoy, appreciate or form attachments to most of these things, and this is about her.

I would spread it out as much as possible. Add the dolls house and the books to her room so they're there when she moves in and maybe a special teddy/soft toy on her bed . Bring the dolls on a nice visit/dinner/housewarming type thing. Keep the dolls from america for another visit in the new year telling her it's from her auntie bla bla bla.

Play kitchen at easter.

Keep the bike and playdoh and disney dolls for Christmas.

Scooter whenever it warms up.

And so on.

It will be much better for her if you spread it out , with special occasions and just because gifts.

Iloveyoubut · 21/12/2024 14:26

Can you not hold some stuff back or retune some stuff? It’s a lovely thing you’ve done but I’d assume DD has been living with someone who has taken every bit of control she has from her over the last few years so to her, and I’m speaking from experience but hopefully not projecting, this might feel like out of the frying pan into the fire. I think, if you can be amazing enough, let her set the tone this year - it would make her feel so safe and give her some air on it and authority thats she’s clearly been deprived of in that abusive relationship.

Scutterbug · 21/12/2024 14:27

I would save some for her birthday, that’s way too much.

Iloveyoubut · 21/12/2024 14:28

And I don’t doubt for a second you’d not do this but if possible let DD know she really matters too, I’d spoil her more to be honest right now.

Maddy70 · 21/12/2024 14:28

Yeah its too much. Wint your dd think youre undermining her presents?

Arseynal · 21/12/2024 14:28

I think that much stuff will be massively over facing even for a normal 3yo, let alone one who has been through trauma and just lost everyone in her life bar her mum and moved countries. I’d spread it out and definitely not wrap everything.

C152 · 21/12/2024 14:28

I was going to say your DH is right. (There's no need to give both a bike and a scooter, for example.) BUT, you said your DD chose most of it, so I would go with what she is happy with. She is lucky to have you and your DH supporting her.

MounjaroForChristmas · 21/12/2024 14:30

Iloveyoubut · 21/12/2024 14:26

Can you not hold some stuff back or retune some stuff? It’s a lovely thing you’ve done but I’d assume DD has been living with someone who has taken every bit of control she has from her over the last few years so to her, and I’m speaking from experience but hopefully not projecting, this might feel like out of the frying pan into the fire. I think, if you can be amazing enough, let her set the tone this year - it would make her feel so safe and give her some air on it and authority thats she’s clearly been deprived of in that abusive relationship.

DD was the one choosing everything. Op was paying. This isn't Op going crazy and dragging DD along with her.

If anything, going against the autonomy DD had in choosing what she wants without concern Op was going to tell her "no", and returning things just because her father says so is more of the same control by a man, not less.

Original poster
starlymarly · 21/12/2024 14:33

Iloveyoubut · 21/12/2024 14:28

And I don’t doubt for a second you’d not do this but if possible let DD know she really matters too, I’d spoil her more to be honest right now.

We've spoiled DD too, more or less told her if she feels like there is anything she wants or needs to just get it, reaffirming she doesn't need to ask etc. Still every time she wants something she asks anyway.
We've got her lovely bits for Christmas but when we asked if there was anything she really liked she said Sunday lunch at yours every week and a home that she and her DD feel safe in.
DD is struggling with feeling like she's failed her DGD. I think a lot of the toys were driven by her because of this.
DGD is settling really well, her only complaint is the weather (and in fairness she has spent her whole life in a hot country so I'm not surprised she's unhappy with British weather).

OP posts:
WiddlinDiddlin · 21/12/2024 14:33

I would definitely trickle in some of this stuff over the next few weeks rather than all in one go.

Or there is a very real risk that you'll have an overwhelmed kiddo who is crying and tired, and you've got all this anticipation of her having a magical time and that is only going to lead to grumpy conflicted disappointed people all round which is absolutely not what anyone needs.

I'd also be very mindful that your DD has escaped one controlling person who held all the financial strings and now you and your DH hold all the financial strings and whilst I am sure you have no bad intentions... its a tricky tightrope to walk and she may (particularly as she has been conditioned to do so by her ex) feel she must agree with and go along with things because you are bank rolling it all... Rebuild this relationship with her steadily.

Also, can you actually sustain this level of financial support for her and her DD long term... because if you can't, building it all up now and being lavish now and then having to with draw it later when she relies on it is going to be a big problem!

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/12/2024 14:34

She did speak to his brother who said she and her DD were as good as dead to them, I guess time will tell though.

Which is extremely lucky. Because if they were in a Hague Convention country, he has every right to pursue the child being returned. And if he's controlling, he may well do that.

I hope you have money for legal fees as well as presents. Your DD is still in a very tenuous position.

I'd have a read up on trauma. The little girl may have very complex and conflicted emotions at the moment and associating a huge Christmas with leaving her abusive father will have lasting consequences. Being boring, predictable, safe, calm, and having tomorrow be like today is probably more important than piles and piles of toys.

It's common for divorcing parents to 'spoil' thinking it somehow makes up for something. And in this case, with the control, it's very complicated. It isn't like an account, where you can add things to make up for the other column. DGD will need a lot of things that aren't things.

Birdscratch · 21/12/2024 14:35

This Christmas is quite obviously a one off for a child who has been cut off from your family. From what you’ve said about how you feel you contributed to your DD’s vulnerability to an abusive man, your DH needs to stop and think about his attitude to parenting and stop reacting on instinct. The idea that buying lots of things for a child of 3(?) who arrived by plane with nothing is ‘spoiling her’ and will set up expectations is utterly ludicrous. It’s a knee jerk reaction. I’d buy him the Philippa Perry book for Christmas. https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-book-you-wish-your-parents-had-read-and-your-children-will-be-glad-that-you-did/philippa-perry/9780241251027

Poppinjay suggested the Freedom Programme and that’s really important. Your DD and granddaughter are safe for now but for your DD to stay away and to avoid getting involved in another abusive situation down the road she needs to understand why she was vulnerable, how to put her needs first, how to recognise the warning signs and establish healthy boundaries.

Ted27 · 21/12/2024 14:36

@starlymarly
I understand your instincts and wish to spoil her but can I add another perspective as an adoptive and foster parent.
She is a small child who has had her whole world ripped out from under her feet. It doesn't matter how undesirable you think it was, it was still her world, her home, her daddy. She has been through a very traumatic experience and you are practically strangers to her.
I have an 11 year with me, he arrived 2 months ago with literally nothing but teddy bear and the clothes he was wearing.
It's been a slow process of kitting him out with the things kids of his age usually have and we are still not there yet. He still doesn't even have enough clothes yet because he just can't cope with the receiving the amount of stuff he needs, let alone the toys etc. We go out and his eyes are everywhere - he just wants the stuff but is getting overwhelmed. There are lots of people being very generous towards him but we are having to pace things very carefully. I will let him open a few presents over the weekend, some on Christmas Eve, he will have presents from my family next weekend.
I think you have a vision of a lovely, magical family Christmas. It'd understandable, I'd like one too but I'm not going to get it. You may be lucky and she may take it her stride but I think you run the risk of an overwhelmed, disregulated little girl who just won't know what to do with all the stuff.
By all means spoil her a bit but I really would tone it down a bit.
I agree with a pp who suggested using some of the stuff such as the books as part of the decoration of her room. I think if you pace it a bit you have more chance of having the Christmas you want.
I hope you have a lovely time, your daughter is lucky to have you in her corner

Iloveyoubut · 21/12/2024 14:36

Birdscratch · 21/12/2024 14:35

This Christmas is quite obviously a one off for a child who has been cut off from your family. From what you’ve said about how you feel you contributed to your DD’s vulnerability to an abusive man, your DH needs to stop and think about his attitude to parenting and stop reacting on instinct. The idea that buying lots of things for a child of 3(?) who arrived by plane with nothing is ‘spoiling her’ and will set up expectations is utterly ludicrous. It’s a knee jerk reaction. I’d buy him the Philippa Perry book for Christmas. https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-book-you-wish-your-parents-had-read-and-your-children-will-be-glad-that-you-did/philippa-perry/9780241251027

Poppinjay suggested the Freedom Programme and that’s really important. Your DD and granddaughter are safe for now but for your DD to stay away and to avoid getting involved in another abusive situation down the road she needs to understand why she was vulnerable, how to put her needs first, how to recognise the warning signs and establish healthy boundaries.

I agree with this and following your DD’s lead.

Original poster
starlymarly · 21/12/2024 14:37

WiddlinDiddlin · 21/12/2024 14:33

I would definitely trickle in some of this stuff over the next few weeks rather than all in one go.

Or there is a very real risk that you'll have an overwhelmed kiddo who is crying and tired, and you've got all this anticipation of her having a magical time and that is only going to lead to grumpy conflicted disappointed people all round which is absolutely not what anyone needs.

I'd also be very mindful that your DD has escaped one controlling person who held all the financial strings and now you and your DH hold all the financial strings and whilst I am sure you have no bad intentions... its a tricky tightrope to walk and she may (particularly as she has been conditioned to do so by her ex) feel she must agree with and go along with things because you are bank rolling it all... Rebuild this relationship with her steadily.

Also, can you actually sustain this level of financial support for her and her DD long term... because if you can't, building it all up now and being lavish now and then having to with draw it later when she relies on it is going to be a big problem!

Yes we've been very careful to make sure DD knows that the money she has now (while given by us) is hers and she can do whatever she likes with it.
We are very fortunate that both our main home and the home DD will have are mortgage free, and we are in a position where we can afford to support DD for the long run.
Obviously the goal is for her to be fully independent but we've been told by family she should just take the first job that comes up etc.
We would rather she takes time and adjusts, settles in, goes to therapy. Then she can go to uni (which she really wants to do) and build up a life little by little that will support her for years to come.

OP posts:
PlopSofa · 21/12/2024 14:38

It probably doesn’t matter either way.

in the end, your DD is home and safe and now has to rebuild her life in the uk as a single mum.

im not sure any of this really matters. As long as the little girl is loved and feels secure, thats the best feeling in the world no amount of presents could buy.

I hope your DD grows up through this process and realises that romantic love whilst a wonderful notion, is truly I often think designed to work against women.

We keep falling for the idea that someone will ‘save us’ and give us the validation we’re always seeking externally whereas we should be giving it to ourselves every day without the need for a male partner to tell us we’re ok and lovable.

We should be raised to know boundaries and our values better and spot red flags earlier on but over and over again we see fairy tale endings of happily ever after and compromise those boundaries in the name of ‘love’ when it’s anything but.

i do hope she sees the therapist for a while after because to me she sounded quite immature, giving up her future for a man who must have red flags early on.

Not to blame you OP. I’ve made my fair share of mistakes, we all have. Good luck to you all.

ShadowsOfTheDays · 21/12/2024 14:40

Oh bugger it, I'd go wildly overboard too. Enjoy it!

AcrossthePond55 · 21/12/2024 14:40

I am so glad your DD got away from that horrible situation. I can fully understand the joy that splashing out gave the two of you.

IMHO, she's three. I don't think at her age it will create 'expectations'. But I do think that this present-palooza may overwhelm her and as a result she'll be fratchety afterwards. As it is, at three she'll probably have the patience to open 3 -5 gifts then she'll get bored & want to play with what she's opened already.

If you simply feel you must give it all:

I'd take the play kitchen & food, dolls house & accessories, the baby doll & accoutrements, some of the books and the bike OR the scooter to the new house. That will be a nice surprise for her, a fully stocked bed/playroom to explore and play with in her new home. She's been through a lot so the move from your house to 'just' DD and her may be a bit unsettling for her, having all the new 'stuff' may help with that.

Make her a Xmas Eve box of some of 'the little things'.

That will leave the other dolls, dress up clothes & books for Xmas Day. Even that may be overwhelming, but you can space it out.

And there's always Easter, you could put aside a few things if Easter gifts are a tradition you want to start up.

In other news, after the holidays are through, your DD needs to see a solicitor, explain the situation, and ask if there is anything legal she should do to insure there are no problems down the line if that bastard should decide to show up. I'd also encourage her to stop trying to contact him. I get why she's doing it, but she now has a chance at a brand new life, hopefully with someone who will value and love her and DD.

PlopSofa · 21/12/2024 14:41

starlymarly · 21/12/2024 14:37

Yes we've been very careful to make sure DD knows that the money she has now (while given by us) is hers and she can do whatever she likes with it.
We are very fortunate that both our main home and the home DD will have are mortgage free, and we are in a position where we can afford to support DD for the long run.
Obviously the goal is for her to be fully independent but we've been told by family she should just take the first job that comes up etc.
We would rather she takes time and adjusts, settles in, goes to therapy. Then she can go to uni (which she really wants to do) and build up a life little by little that will support her for years to come.

Show quote history

It sounds like you’re still enabling her somewhat and she’s not going to grow up quite like she needs to if you continue to support her to the point she doesn’t need to try.

is she an only child?

arethereanyleftatall · 21/12/2024 14:41

As an aside, men like her ex should be in prison. He groomed her. It should be illegal for a 34 yr old man to have a relationship with an 18yo. It can only be abusive.

Have a wonderful Christmas op, I think it's more for your dd rather than your gd in a way. It must have been joyous for her to have your support and go out shopping.

MsXmasGGMasterTwat · 21/12/2024 14:42

SouthLondonMum22 · 21/12/2024 13:30

Not too over the top at all. It’s been a shit time, now time to make some lovely memories and spoil that little girl rotten.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Original poster
starlymarly · 21/12/2024 14:42

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/12/2024 14:34

She did speak to his brother who said she and her DD were as good as dead to them, I guess time will tell though.

Which is extremely lucky. Because if they were in a Hague Convention country, he has every right to pursue the child being returned. And if he's controlling, he may well do that.

I hope you have money for legal fees as well as presents. Your DD is still in a very tenuous position.

I'd have a read up on trauma. The little girl may have very complex and conflicted emotions at the moment and associating a huge Christmas with leaving her abusive father will have lasting consequences. Being boring, predictable, safe, calm, and having tomorrow be like today is probably more important than piles and piles of toys.

It's common for divorcing parents to 'spoil' thinking it somehow makes up for something. And in this case, with the control, it's very complicated. It isn't like an account, where you can add things to make up for the other column. DGD will need a lot of things that aren't things.

Thank you this a good point. They were in Qatar which I don't believe is a Hague Convention Country.

The situation is complex and we will be reaching out to all the agencies under the sun who can help.

OP posts: