To think you can't go over the top at Christmas in these circumstances

[starlymarly]

Some context first, DH and I have one DD, she's now 22 but when she was 18 she entered into a relationship with a man who was 16 years older we were not happy about this, she was on her gap year, she was a bright girl, AAAB at a-level, a place at uni waiting for her. It was the Covid year so she decided to wait and go to uni the next year and spend the year working.
Anyway she met this man, 16 years older. The relationship spiralled very quickly and within a couple of months DD was pregnant and insisting she would be keeping the baby and moving in with him. Soon after that she was going to be moving back to his home country with him which she did not long after our DGD was born.
We were walking a tightrope, we were devastated this is what our DDs life had become but equally keen not to be too loud as she was pushing us away more and more.
For the last 2 and a half years the relationship with our DD was nothing more than some text messages, pictures and a FaceTime once every 3/4 months. We'd make plans to visit, book flights and then something would come up and she couldn't possibly see us. It was heartbreaking and we knew something wasn't right but there wasn't much we could do. She always refused to give us an exact address of where she was staying and I knew if we pushed too hard she'd shut us off completely.
Anyway fast forward to last month. DD called me sobbing saying she was in a hotel with DGD and he'd booked flights back to the uk for her for not the next day but the day after that. He had been cheating and the relationship had been very abusive, this was the first time DD had said it out loud to us. He then basically told her he wanted her gone and not to see her again. He let her bring sentimental things (DGDs first shoes or picture albums etc.) and some clothes, but no toys and not enough clothes for anyone to live in.

We borrowed a car seat and picked DD and DGD up from the airport. This was all about 4 weeks ago now. We are in a position to help DD, we have a small 2 bed rental and the last tenants had just moved out, so we are redecorating it for DD now. We have gotten her therapy, DGD enrolled in nursery at a lovely local prep school and a place offered for reception next year which we will fund and we are helping DD with reapplying to uni.

Now the issue, between DD and I we have gone wild on DGD Christmas. She has more or less nothing here. We picked up some small bits which she plays with now but no big toys. I don't want to count how much I've spent as it must be crazy.
We've got a bike and scooter, dolls house and all the accessories, play kitchen and play food, baby doll, with pram/highchair etc. My sister who lives in America is bringing her an American Girl Doll over as a gift from her. We've bought Lottie Dolls and Disney Princess dolls, dressing up clothes, books, so many books and then little things like playdoh, puzzles and magnetic play sets.

DH thinks we've way over done it, left nothing for her to get in the future and set an expectation that Christmas will always be like this. I think in the awful circumstances and the fact she has nothing at all really means we can't over do it this year.
Obviously it will be a lot to open so we are just going to put the play food in the kitchen or the furniture in the dolls house so it's one item rather than 5/6.

But AIBU to say we can't over do it this year? Her birthday isn't for months so it makes more sense to ensure she has lots of toys to play with now.

I agree with this. Also if your DGD has had to leave beloved toys, dolls, costumes etc behind weeks ago, why have you bought so many replacements, like this, yet are hiding and saving them to give them to her all at once? I genuinely don’t understand the reasoning behind this.

And pretty much all your responses on this whole thread are “yes, but” “yes, but” “yes, but”. You are determined you are right and haven’t even explored in depth your DH’s POV, you are dismissing it, like anything else.

Now you’re saying your DD has made minimal changes to the plan, but anyway, it doesn’t matter what people say, it’s normal to receive this level of presents (and five dolls wrapped as one gift, isn’t usually normal, IME, and it seems so excessive). The whole thing seems just so indicative at throwing money at a “problem” to buy happiness to solve it. A technique you say yourself you have tried and tested, and has not worked.

If it were my DD and DGD, my focus would be “what advice could MN give me to help my DD and DGD heal” not “AIBU to give a child this huge amount of stuff to try and make them happy even though my DH isn’t on board”.

(Also from experience having DC at university, it fucking costs a LOT, much more than I had expected) Maybe your DH is worried about the medium and long term here, not just the very short term you are focusing on?

I think there are some absolute mad replies on here.
Comparing the OP to the DDs abusive ex DP?
If any of you found yourself in the DDs situation and your parents welcomed you home, with your child, provided you with somewhere safe to live and get back on your feet would you consider that abusive ? Nah I didn't think so.

Yes, if the OP was spending this much on her grandchild every Christmas, then I would agree, but they have come over with ONE suitcase, they don't have a pot to piss in.
The OP is clearly doing everything she can to ensure her DD and granddaughter are safe and secure.
So what if she's gone mental with Christmas she hasn't seen them in god knows how long?
There are some really strange people on Mumsnet at times.

@starlymarly I hope it stays simple, that he relinquishes all rights, and this is a chapter your DD can close. I have had friends who have been forced to return with their children to the UAE, after fleeing to the UK. Hopefully your DD’s ex will agree to full custody.

@HysteroscopyWoes

It was DDs choice to keep them for Christmas.

She says she's worked really hard with her DD to understand that we only get toys at certain times of year (historically birthday Eid and Christmas) and doesn't want to set new expectations of getting toys whenever just because.

I don't need advice on how to help DD heal, we have therapists, lawyers, family and friends who are all much more clued up on the situation helping with that.

I was more just looking for ideas and opinions.

I would say removing the biggest gift and not wrapping lots of them etc. will mean Christmas looks quite different from what it would have done at the start of the thread so it's unfair to say no advice has been taken on.

Yes it's too much.

She's 3.

I spent 5 minutes googling this before I posted (although I knew it already from my professional work) and what came up in Psychology Today was the negative effects on child development of too many toys all at once.

A 3 year old can't cope with that many toys all at once.

Please think that this is not about you and the lovely warm fuzzy feelings of being generous and trying to obliterate her past.

You're looking at it purely from your own perspective. She doesn't have adult emotions like being 'grateful' or 'thrilled' with all the toys.

For goodness sake put at least half of them away.

If she's never had a bike before, that could be her main gift and you'll spend Xmas teaching her to ride it and have fun.

She says she's worked really hard with her DD to understand that we only get toys at certain times of year (historically birthday Eid and Christmas) and doesn't want to set new expectations of getting toys whenever just because.

A 3 year old doesn't yet have the intellect or emotional intelligence to understand that about presents. Not really.

I'd set some aside like some bit of the furniture for the dolls house, you can bring these out gradually. Some with books, have a day every month when you bring out a new book.

@JuliaSmith

Like I said, it's set in stone. This is how DD wants to do it and as I've already been compared to her abusive ex I certainly won't be telling her "put half of them away".

I know lots of people who did similar when their children were young. Some are oxbridge graduates, some have wound up in complicated situations like DD. I really doubt the 15 toys at Christmas after such a difficult year will be that influential when this child has lost everything she had, witnessed her mother being abused and had to move 4000 miles at age 3. When your child psychology articles take into account the seriously out of the ordinary circumstances I'll give them some thought but right now I'm more concerned about the abuse this poor little baby has witnessed and the trauma of having a playroom filled with toys one day then being on a plane away from everything she ever knew the next to land with absolutely nothing and the psychological impact that will have.

The issue wasn't necessarily the amount of presents, but the fact that most of them were big/main present type style(which can be pretty overwhelming on their own) and too many of one thing i.e. dolls.

I see from your updates you're changing some things around and that should work. Hopefully you all have a great Christmas, and you're on the path to healing.

Well okay @starlymarlyif you say you’ve changed your plans after posting, and so going purely off your last post where the plan (inc just not wrapping new stuff up, and counting five dolls wrapped together as one present) is now “set in stone” - YABU and it’s still far too much, and will be overwhelming. I would also really try and look into your DH’s POV and his thoughts in more depth, especially for the longer term, even if it’s too late to change anything in the short term.

Having said that, I sincerely hope you all have a good Xmas and DGD loves her presents.

Bollocks, we always had big christmases like this and I loved it as do my kids... we never 'struggled to cope' and have no 'psychological damage'. Utterly ridiculous over the top propaganda to pander to your own views.

If your kids can't cope with this then how do they function at the park, soft play, parties, nursery, role play cafes, interactive museums, kids shows etc... where there are dozens of new things to do/play/see in a short time?

If your kid can't cope with that might be a sign they are struggling not to be overstimulated in what is fairly standard childhood environments and you should probably bring it up to your health visitor.

DH is onboard with this. He's since said his actual concern was more fitting it all in the living room at once so is happy with this.
He actually agrees 15 presents (which is the dolls wrapped individually) is normal.

Originally the food sets for the kitchen and the little room furnishings for the dolls house would have been wrapped too, plus books and that would have easily added another 20 things. I can definitely see how that could be overwhelming!

I hope you have a lovely Christmas too.

But all of these traumatic things she has experienced lateley makes it much worse, it's not an excuse to do overwhelm her further. None of you seem to understand that you are purely doing this for yourselves and you are expecting this little 3 year old girl to sit there and unwrap 18 presents and still be appreciative. You aren't helping her settling, you are just overloading her with impressions and stuff. She's way to young for this.

Had your kids also witnessed their mum being physically abused by their dad, then thrown out of her home and moved in with family she barely knew 4 weeks before having a mountain of presents to open whilst a bunch of adults are watching her at the age of 3?

@RoachFish

DD claims that she got 20 odd presents for her birthday just from her parents and handled it without an issue and they were all wrapped and included big presents like Dolls Pram, Balance Bike and 6 different Disney dolls all wrapped separately.

She's been having a read of the comments too and her take is
"They don't know my daughter like I do and I believe she will be more than able to handle it, so I'm not worried"

I'll take my DDs word on this one but I do appreciate the input.

Well OK I guess this was an entirely pointless thread then. It does sound like the most important thing is that you and your DD gets to shop to your hearts content and the wellbeing of the child comes second. She could still get all these things but in a less overwhelming way but that's not interesting to you and your DD because you don't get the full lavish effect.

I won't continue repeating myself, but just because we have resigned to doing it exactly how you (a stranger who doesn't know my DGD fwiw) believes we should doesn't mean we have taken on board the advice.

We have removed probably over 50% of the presents from Christmas Day itself.

Either with the kitchen and books being at the new house, the scooter being given to her today and the puzzles etc on Christmas Eve.

Not doing it your way doesn't mean it was pointless and without this thread it probably would have been overwhelming.

We have been able to accept that our initial idea was overwhelming, maybe you could try accept that something not being done exactly as you suggested doesn't mean it was pointless.

OK, I guess 18 presents is better than 40 so it's good that it's been reduced, even though in my opinion it's still way too much for such a young child who has gone through what she has.

@starlymarly
She’s very lucky she has a supportive family to come home to. 💕

There are some unkind messages on this thread. You sound lovely and being able to reflect about how you brought up your daughter is so important. Go wild, looks after them, shower them in love. It will hopefully all be OK now

If there was ever a good time to spoil a child rotten, it's now. Have a lovely Christmas.

Hi Starlymarly, I don't use mumsnet normally but a friend sent me this as our situations are so similar.

My own daughter ended up in a very similar situation, although she was a bit older and had just graduated. She moved abroad (also the middle east) with this man before the baby was born.
Just 2 months before my granddaughter turned 3 and whilst pregnant with another my daughter ended up back at our door too.
We were able to help her with a job and a friend allowed them to move into her home which she had been renting out. The divorce was very amicable and my daughter actually decided to have an abortion. She was also able to get his consent to change granddaughters surname to ours.

For gifts we initially replaced things, this was things like the toy kitchen, puzzles, duplo and baby doll/pram. We did this before her Birthday. My daughter didn't make a big deal of this, though we paid for it. We just told granddaughter that these were just like the toys she had back in Abu Dhabi.
For her birthday she got a bike then just some smaller toys but it probably was 12-15 items.
For christmas which was 6 months later she got a bike and other toys.

Honestly it being so close to christmas and so far from her birthday probably makes it harder, but you could probably just put toys in the new house and not draw attention to them. We found 15 or so was plenty (this is how much she gets every year though).

I think your current plan is good though and if you need any advice I'm happy to give it. My granddaughter is now 5 and doing better than ever!

You sound like lovely parents and grandparents.

You are very lucky that the Qatar man didn’t want his daughter, otherwise it would have been a really desperate situation for you and your daughter - if Qatar were Hague Convention signatories it actually would have been worse, because that convention says that the child should remain in the country where they have been so far ordinarily raised. But in this case even if the father soon decides he wants her back a British court is highly unlikely to send her back now that she is back in the UK. I am sorry to say, however, that kidnapping remains a risk, if he should change his mind, and as I am sure you have been advised, you will need to be really clear with nursery and school who is allowed to pick her up…

It sounds like you have now made reasonable decisions about this very unusual Christmas. Moving forward, I would say that 15 presents is too many! Raising my children - in a fairly affluent, but not rich, household - there was a big present from Mummy and Daddy, and another big one from Santa. I admit that sometimes the Elves threw in a gift, and if we had really gone over the top it turned out that the dogs and cats had been shopping as well (especially for books and smaller items). But I am pretty sure we never went beyond about half what DGD is getting this year. Nevertheless, as you say, it is a special year!

As for your daughter, your relatives who think she should take the first job are very wrong. You have clearly recognised that she needs time to recover, and you are right. She is obviously a very able young woman and should be supported through university, when she is ready.

Therapy all round sounds a good plan too.

Well done! You are now doing a great job, and punishing yourselves for past mistakes is not helpful. The important thing is you are there for your child and your grandchild now. I wish you the best of luck and great joy to have your daughter and granddaughter back with you.

I think it will be wonderful for your dgd to move into her new home, set up with the toys that she had to leave behind. She will just be recreating the things she has lost, so I would go ahead! Let her have a big pile of presents to unwrap, if she is anything like my DC she will unwrap, play and then move onto the next when she is ready. 1 magical Christmas isn't too much to give her following the trauma she has witnessed. I hope things work out for your daughter, and her new start in life be filled with blessings.

Congratulations and well done on getting your daughter back! Best of luck for the future. You sound like a wonderful and sensible mother and grandmother.