To be so disturbed by the male race currently

[honeypotter]

All the business with Lily Philips - how many men queued up to do what they did to her

And Gisele Pelicot

Are men really that obsessed with sex that they are so desperate to rape and queue up and be solely concerned with their own depraved satisfaction.

I know it's not all men but I'm feeling so disillusioned with men in general and it seems to be getting worse and not better.

Does anyone else feel like this? Also the only people I see posting about Gisele are female.

Where are all the men??

I'm raising boys and to be honest it's terrifying to look at my innocent children and the world they are growing up in.

I don’t think the OP, or anyone on this thread are comparing Lily to Gisele.

What happened to Gisele was absolutely horrifying. (Her husband and every single man that violated her should never be released from prison IMO).

No one is saying that Lily experienced the same level of violation to what Gisele did. The two are incomparable, however it isn’t this black and white, Lily is still a victim of societies and men’s view of how women are seen as sexual objects. She really isn’t a “boss”. She’s obviously a mentally unwell woman with incredibly low self-esteem and self worth.

Her situation really isn’t as simple as “she was the boss”.

I don't see why so many people are having trouble seeing the thing that the two cases have in common. Neither would have happened if the men involved had any respect for women. They both reflect very badly on a large number of men.

Of course, the cases are also different in many ways, but in terms of both being examples of a sickness in the culture of men I don't see that there's a problem in them both being mentioned together.

Give your head a wobble. They raped an unconscious woman.

Gisele Pelicot's situation is completely incomparable to Lily Philips'.

Whether you personally have a dick or not is irrelevant. What you're saying is that it's fine for someone to stick their dick in someone who's not enjoying it. Fucking gross.

I don’t think OP is comparing the two in terms of consent, she is grouping them together to demonstrate the enmasse depravity of some men.

The Pelicot case is abhorrent in terms of rape but the other woman’s incident is just men taking part in a situation that’s not criminal but also morally bankrupt.

The thing is in 20, 30 years time or so Lily will back and think “I why the fuck did I do that? and be horrified.

I'm pretty open minded but honest to fuck. Have a word with yourself.

Well exactly, they’re always blinkered to the long term consequences and the realities of the mainstream world. It’s as if they’re on the fringe completely under the spell of the sex positivity movement and sexual liberation. They’re almost in another world and industry cut off from ordinary people.

My aim is to bring my DC up with a clear view of equality, and what acceptable and unacceptable behaviour and views look like. I point out examples of misogyny that they'd not normally notice, because society is riddled with it and so much is just taken for granted. I make my boys aware that this is their responsibility to identify and challenge every day examples, because the sort of men that need challenging probably won't bother to listen when women point things out, but might just do so if someone of their own sex does. As I said, I sometimes get disheartened when I consider the volume and intensity of hatred / contempt that is out there, but I gave to remind myself that I have the responsibility to push against this. Being on MN has opened my eyes to a lot of things that most men wouldn't ever consider, so I'm grateful for the women on here that have helped me understand things better.

Do you have a link to that? I can't find it on a web search.

I wonder when that survey was done, and when those figures are worse now than 20 or 30 years ago.

Yes, exactly, @Nogaxeh!

100%. So if someone asked you to throw them off a bridge thereby killing them would that be okay? There is a recent why in law that would be impossible to consent to.
Any decent man wouldn’t be within a mile of this. It’s vile.

For everyone saying "Lily chose to do this" ergo it's not horrifying that men participated, do you honestly believe this is a "healthy" choice made by someone of sound mind and emotions?

And would you genuinely not feel contempt and revulsion if a man you knew admitted to participating?

I’m not saying that at all. Did she tell the men she wasn’t enjoying it? Did she ask them to stop? No, she said I’ve chosen a target of 100 men, and you’re here to help me achieve it.

I don’t think this thread is about the women but the men.

I don’t know if all the men who stuck their dick in Lily Philips would have taped Gisèle, nor do I know if all the men who raped Gisele would have queued for Lily, but I would imagine there’s significant overlap, because the one thing we know for absolute certain is that every single man in each scenario was happy to have sex with a woman who wasn’t enjoying it. Every. Single. One.

@ACynicalDad

The Gisele case is alarming, but reflecting that on 4 billion people seems excessive.

No, I think reflecting these bog-standard 50 men in a very ordinary nondescript town across the male population is very sensible and logical. In fact, if we then consider how many more of them weren't caught, how very many more saw the forum post and didn't report it, how many more didn't see the post but would have gone if they had, and then allow for many parts of the world where views of women are even more disgusting than this, then this reflection is not remotely excessive. It's very conservative.

My DD is 16 and chats to boys her age on SM. The way some of them talk to her is disturbing, they are very sexual and have zero idea or concern for boundaries and talk to her as though she is a possession. It's a very worrying trend and SM is fuelling it.

And yes, she does block them. It enrages her.

Some men are sickening.

Other than (at least a few of them) deliberately cumming in her face / eyes despite her specifically telling them she didn’t want them to.

Yes. And also that the crime went undetected for so long, and was discovered almost by accident. We have no way of knowing how many similar cases there are that haven't been discovered.

It's horrifying.

Riiiiight because men are SO thick and lacking in imagination and empathy that they have to have it spelled out to them that she wasn't enjoying it? I think you possibly have an even lower opinion of these men than me?!

Possibly!

Gisele Pelicot is not a sex worker. She was drugged and raped by her husband and a load of rapists.

Don't compare her to sex workers.

Well that certainly ranks highly amongst the grossest things I've read today. I feel grimy.

Because 20 years is the maximum sentence for rape in France. I was listening to Woman's Hour just now and they were talking about that. There seems to be photographic evidence he also raped his daughter but she has no memory of it (not surprising, given his love of drugging women) - that may well go to court and which jury is going to believe he didn't? He's also been linked to an attempted rape in Paris years ago and they are connecting him too with a rape and murder from the 90s. They think that it's very unlikely he started his assaults when he had retired.