To be so disturbed by the male race currently

[honeypotter]

All the business with Lily Philips - how many men queued up to do what they did to her

And Gisele Pelicot

Are men really that obsessed with sex that they are so desperate to rape and queue up and be solely concerned with their own depraved satisfaction.

I know it's not all men but I'm feeling so disillusioned with men in general and it seems to be getting worse and not better.

Does anyone else feel like this? Also the only people I see posting about Gisele are female.

Where are all the men??

I'm raising boys and to be honest it's terrifying to look at my innocent children and the world they are growing up in.

Well that's the thing about enjoyment: it's up to the enjoyER to decide what's enjoyable for them. Not my cup of tea, personally, but that's not their problem.

The point was that she was the one who initiated the whole shebang. They answered an invitation. Why they wanted to? Who knows, but that's for them to decide.

But some of the verbal contortions people are willing to go through to reverse the whole thing, turn her into the victim and invest all the agency in the men and only the men are just ridiculous. Some feminists seem to love the idea of female empowerment, right up until someone female does something they don't like.

I love your use of the word shebang in this context.

Exactly how I feel, thanks for posting this.

Some feminists seem to love the idea of female empowerment, right up until someone female does something they don't like.

Nothing about porn or prostitution is 'empowering' Do men need to do it to feel empowered? Why do women need to feel empowered? The number of men who will fuck trafficked women, or unconscious women, or women who are crying or asking for help or apathetic should appal us all, not just feminists.

There's nothing sexy about abuse or self harm. Sticking it on Only Fans and taking money for it is no different. Would you pay to watch someone cutting themselves, or taking drugs?

But it offers an interesting insight into the male psyche. The objectification of women into something to 'do sex to' isn't a million miles away from other, more serious forms of abuse.

Well again, empowerment is a bit like enjoyment - the decision about what consititutes it is by definition subjective and up to the individual to make. I'm not saying for one second that I consider the porn industry in general or OnlyFans empowering. But what I think is irrelevant. The fact is that this particular woman - who from all accounts was already earning a good income and didn't need the money, and as far as we know was not coerced by anybody - made an individual choice to sleep with 100 men for whatever reasons she had. Empowerment is not a question of whether that choice corresponds to my morality or yours, my conception of feminism or yours; it's a question of her right and ability to exercise her own agency.

By contrast, some would see empowerment as being when women have fully understood, accepted the internalized the particular conception of feminism that WE TELL THEM to accept, and all the consequent actions or restrictions on actions (not using your sex to make money or notoriety, not being a slut by sleeping with more than the Officially Acceptable number of men, etc.) that arise from that. So your "empowerment" means your total submission to what I tell you I consider "empowering". 😆

And as this is obviously such upsidedown thinking, it requires completely ignoring or changing the facts of the case to sustain it. So the woman who initiated the whole thing is now the "victim" who had things "done" to her. And the men who answered her invitation are the culprits who "did" those things to her.

I don't get this narrative, she fucked 100 guys, a man on love Island boasts he has fucked 96 women.
He is seen as a roll model for many, has his pick of women.

A woman on the same show who has had a lot of sex, is seen as undesirable by some of the men.

There is the time line but the bottom line is both are prepared to fuck whoever they can & use it for fame.

No one saying he is mentally ill.

As far as i can see, LP is behaving the way men do but in our topsy turvey world, its ok for men, he is a stud, she is a mentally ill vile slut.... why not lock her up in an asylum?

Not that long ago and she would have been.

A man speaks.

"A man speaks"

The OP made an error in referring to men as a race rather than sex/ gender but imagine if someone poster on here...

A (insert race) speaks

Or

Not all (insert race) are like that...

Thankfully it is no longer acceptable to silence people based on race but on Mumsnet it has fine to do so based on gender....

Oh, another man speaks — rather incoherently, unfortunately. You mean sex, not gender, by the way. Gender is just a social construct.

When a man speaks and demonstrates how little he understands of the psychosexual mores and dynamics and biological issues around sex for women, yes — I'll call him a man. Because it's clear that most men see this from one angle and think any woman who's up for sex is fair game, while most women see and understand the complexity of Lily Philips's behaviour. Hence women on here referring to mental health and trauma issues while men just see an opportunity, like Gisele Pelicot's rapists. The husband says she wants it, so why not rape a drugged woman, eh?

Have I commented on the Love Island man?

Equally I would think a man doing this has some form of mental health issues.

Exactly, you didn't, no one did, its seen as a totally normal thing for a man to do... a woman does similar and she is a slut, slag, slapper, is vile and has MH issues.

Rod Stewart has bragged of his sex life, lost count of the number of women, 8 kids by 5 different mothers, has he got MH issues?

@JHound

You are totally missing the point here. Men having sex is not the same, physically, as woman enjoying a man having sex with her.

Men do not have someone enter their body when they have sex, they do not have excessive bodily fluids spilled on them/into them. Men shagging different women over a period of time does not cause injury to a man, a woman having 100 men put their penis' in her within 24 hours will.

Let's try and turn this around like for like;
If a man requested that he had 100 penis' pushed into him and 100 sperm loads in/over within 24 hours, (he may or may not climax) I would also think he had mental health issues. Why? because the sexual gratification would likely not be his 100 times and more importantly he would know he would highly likely be injured.

Why would I comment on a Love Island man that I have never heard of and was never mentioned in this thread.

This is the weirdest case of “Whataboutery” I have ever seen.

To be clear it is not the having of 100 partners I find indicative of mental health issues but the way it was done.

And yes I find anybody bragging about the number of partners they have had is battling some weird personal and self-esteem issues. Irrespective of sex.

So you can put away your weird strawman now.

You quoted the wrong person.

"When a man speaks and demonstrates how little he understands of the psychosexual mores and dynamics and biological issues around sex for women, yes — I'll call him a man. Because it's clear that most men see this from one angle and think any woman who's up for sex is fair game, while most women see and understand the complexity of Lily Philips's behaviour. Hence women on here referring to mental health and trauma issues while men just see an opportunity, like Gisele Pelicot's rapists. The husband says she wants it, so why not rape a drugged woman, eh?"

1 Nice womansplaining.
You will notice I put sex/ gender as not to everyone on Mumsnet is gender critical and use the terms

1. Nice deployment of streams arguments

Strawman even

If a man requested that he had 100 penis' pushed into him and 100 sperm loads in/over within 24 hours, (he may or may not climax) I would also think he had mental health issues. Why? because the sexual gratification would likely not be his 100 times and more importantly he would know he would highly likely be injured.

But you're completely overlooking the fact that people do things all the time that they don't particularly like, that cause them pain or discomfort or even that risk injury, simply because they figure they can get something from them that is worth the sacrifice. In Lily Phillips' case that appears to be a degree of fame and notoriety that she can monetize through her OnlyFans business. She doesn't need to have enjoyed fucking all the men for it to make sense; she just needs to enjoy the fame and money enough to make it worth having done so.

Does every boxer who steps into the ring and get the shit punched out of him in order to become a famous and wealthy world champion have mental health issues? People do all kinds of shit in order to get stuff outside of the shit itself. You seem to just be using "mental health issues" as a default assumption for any case in which they make a different cost:benefit analysis than you would.

I think its just double standards, not "Strawman" which is just your way of saying "shut up" a typical male response tbh.

I don't see the difference between a woman having 100 partners over a year or a 100 partners in a day, its still 100 men fucking her and cumming in or on her.

You and others may have a different opinion that is no less valid.

It’s a strawman. It’s not double standards.

You are confusing tropes.

It can only be a double standard if I espoused a different stance on two different things. I have not. I have never even HEARD of “love island man” so throwing him into the conversation is a strawman argument.

Pure, simple, Whataboutery.

Not imho.

Had a man stuck his cock in 100 women, he would not have been subjected to the raft of contempt and hatred Lily Phillips has been.

The male biased media would have been full of admiration and jealousy.

Some of the stuff she has been called on MN is usually reserved for child murderers.

So of course its double standards, just look at the language: slut vs stud.

What she does for a living, is up to her, it wont affect my life or yours, so i'll leave you to it.

I think what she does, does impact in the life of other people. Particularly teenage girls. Boys watch this kind of stuff on the internet and think that's the way women should behave and that's the way they expect teenage girls to be. So to say it again I think the way she behaves does impact on other women.

Take it up with those people who have expressed a double standard and leave me out of it.

So many comments here are missing the point of the original post. The comparison isn’t about consent, it’s about the society we have, as a whole, that allows for - actively encourages - the debasement of women by men. The two situations are part of a wider culture that breeds these extremes: on the one hand, we have men who see women as existing for their pleasure to the point they see it as, on some level, acceptable to rape an unconscious woman. On the other, we have allowed an environment that created a woman who thinks so little of her own body, and by extension her mental and emotional health, that she sees purpose in allowing 100 men to sleep with her. And people are arguing this is somehow about ‘empowerment’ or ‘freedom’ when they’re conflating the fact that a person can do something with the idea that they should.

We currently exist in a world where it is actively encouraged to perform extreme behaviours for money and infamy. These behaviours are becoming more normalised and therefore more extreme ‘extremes’ are sought, because, in part, of pornography. How is anyone therefore surprised that there are many normal men who agree to rape an unconscious woman? We encourage this collectively.

Here, on this very thread, many people are ‘othering’ the participants (the rapists of Gisele, the men who had sex with Lily, and Lily herself) as if somehow all of these people exist beyond the rest of our existence. They don’t. They are a product of it. We are all responsible. The discussion should be: what are we, as individuals, and collectively as a society, doing to allow this to happen? And what are we willing to do to stop this?

Look at how many Mumsnet posts exist with people commenting about their partner’s porn use and so many replies are dismissive - it’s just men being men according to them. Let them have their fun. Harmless. Part of sex. Porn is not sex and it is not harmless. Accepting porn, watching porn, is all part of what has contributed to both situations - the acceptance of Lily’s ‘target’ (how many men online will go on to watch it even if they didn’t participate?) and the rapes of Gisele (how many men online will watch rape and not even know it, or, will know it and not care, or will act under the delusion that ‘their’ porn is safe from it?).

Men and women - all of us - are responsible for this, and we are responsible for stopping it. These people aren’t monsters, or degenerates. That’s the entire point. They are people we know. Some of them are us.

Who in the thread has called this love island man a stud and Lily Phillips a slut? You're the only one talking about him that I can see. It's a really weird derail.

Edited as I missed out the quote from louddumpernoise