To be so disturbed by the male race currently

[honeypotter]

All the business with Lily Philips - how many men queued up to do what they did to her

And Gisele Pelicot

Are men really that obsessed with sex that they are so desperate to rape and queue up and be solely concerned with their own depraved satisfaction.

I know it's not all men but I'm feeling so disillusioned with men in general and it seems to be getting worse and not better.

Does anyone else feel like this? Also the only people I see posting about Gisele are female.

Where are all the men??

I'm raising boys and to be honest it's terrifying to look at my innocent children and the world they are growing up in.

A fire might be the place for all of them.
We need to 1. Do something about the awful low conviction rates of sex offenders and rapists and 2. Triple the length of sentences.

It’s clear that many men will not stop unless forced to or unless there are real punitive measures in place.

I'm not defending the men at all, who are repulsive, in my opinion. But apparently they were allowed to come on her face, and inevitably this meant that some of it went in her eyes. It's a messy business.
Anyway, the whole thing is gross.

Yes agree. The lack of positive male role models though, lack of contact with normal males in the lives of boys, who can show them that being decent, being respectful and considerate.

In conjunction to push the demonisation of low life male behaviour - serious punishment to absent non-contributory fathers financially.

In conjunction to push the demonisation of low life male behaviour - serious punishment to absent non-contributory fathers financially.

There isn't anywhere nearly enough action take to address the root causes of male dysfunction, and what you've said here is one of the root causes.

plus education and enlightenment to women not to procreate with unsuitable men who don't stand a snowball's chance of being a decent father, because they've never had positive paternal role models on which to base their decisions and actions.

one big upside of MN is the awareness we spread about women's role in becoming financially independent, and the ability to enter a romantic relationship in a strong enough position to hold their own, and not become vulnerable to an abusive man because they're reliant on a roof over their head, who likes a woman to be pg because it means they are trapped, without agency or empowerment to build their own finances.

I know it's a much hated question "why are you continuing to procreate with this abusive, lazy arsehole" but by god, it does say it like it is - even if it's too late for that woman, it could help other women reading it.

Well as they saying goes, men are lucky we just want equality not retribution.

We should do absolutely everything we can to protect children.

However that won't stop child sex abusers from claiming they were abused as children, whether they were or weren't.

They know it gets them the sympathy card.

And people believe it's a psychological phenomenon.

There may be studies claiming a link between being sexually abused as a child and then sexually abusing children. There are numerous issues with they that I've already pointed out;

.... It's self reported.
It cannot be verified.
It gets the abuser sympathy and maybe clemency.
If they were abused and suffered as a child, why would they want to do it to another child? What, they can't think, they can't stop, they can't control themselves?? They can't physically stop themselves from sexually abusing another human??? They have no cognitive function?? Funny how many of them hold down respectable, high status jobs. Funny how many of them seek out access to children. Wouldn't you avoid that if you had some deep seated, zombie like impulse to sexually abuse children, because a man sexually abused you.
How come women are the most likely to have been sexually abused but the least likely to sexually abuse.
How come plenty of sexually abused men never sexually abuse??

If psychologists world wide truly believe it's common for male child sex abusers and child rapists to have been abused themselves....then I think a great deal more study needs to go into the propensity of child sex abusers and child rapists and rapists of adult women to claim they were sexually abused as a child and whether whose claims are truly credible. Then maybe they should pay attention to those studies.

I believe it's already been shown that many will withdraw that claim when asked to talk about it while undergoing a polygraph.

I will reiterate that I find it almost hilarious that you hear something from proven liars, proven manipulators, proven sexual degenerates, proven criminals ....and believe it's true.

They are dishonest and manipulative and don't want to admit to what they are or take responsibility...... Why on earth do you think they're honest?

if a damaged person is carrying out a weird act of self harm any decent person would seek help at best at worst leave them to it not till their sleeves up and pitch in to help 🙄🙄

It doesn't matter how you see it, factually it wasn't rape. And I say that as someone who agrees with virtually everybody that the men involved were disgusting lowlifes

And not forgetting that if there wasn't video evidence, Gisele Pelicot was not and would not have been believed, as so often women aren't believed. Men think women are lying, regretted sex, are trying to get money or revenge. Most of them prefer it when it's their word against hers, because it's her who won't be believed. But these pigs can claim with no evidence, in a situation that benefits them to say it, that they were abused and it's just taken as gospel by some people.

Let's not forget also, that most horror movies involve a helpless female being pursued and terrorised by a man, usually ending up in rape or murder. And this is what we watch for entertainment If you think about it, that's pretty fucked up.

In your examples I only feel sorry for one woman. lily went out and sought these men. Nothing to feel sorry for about that. I can't any decent man would want to be with her or any child wanting a mother like her. She's ruined her life by her own hand.
Giselle, poor woman just unbelievably sad.

And yet she still wants to go ahead and sleep with 1000 men? That's someone who deserves sympathy? She's as bad as them.

But this goes back to what I was saying - there are almost no innate differences in the brain - so it is to do with upbringing and lifetime influences.

Humans aren't born with perversions. There are very few innate personality traits even.

Just because she’s made an “unwise decision” in our views does not make her unwell. She has capacity and has made her own choices for her own popularity and financial gain.

This is not self harm at all, people need to stop with implying she was raped and she is self harming! The girl asked for this, and is now saying she wants 1000 men! She loves the attention and money to her only fans, it is what it is!

@nopalaver ,

‘Humans aren't born with perversions. There are very few innate personality traits even.’

I think humans definitely are born with perversions!

What we decide is perverted is very societal and varies both over time and location.

In Ancient Greek society, there is much written about whether it is more exciting to sleep with a woman or a male youth in the ‘gymnasiums’ (these were definitely under 16). This wasn’t considered perverted at all. Equally, within many people’s lifetime homosexuality was regarded as perverted in the UK.

Men and women both have instincts which are slightly different due to the role/cost of having offspring to both of them. But some of those instincts, whilst genetically beneficial to the Individual, are not deemed beneficial to society, so we term them perversions and criminalise some of them.

And then we overlay on top of that a lot of influence including, sadly, internet porn.

One of the things I found interesting was the list of jobs that all those who raped Giselle had. There was not one professional on the list. Which does maybe show that education, on average, helps men understand consequences, both moral and legal.

But, as I said above, you are looking at a very very rarefied selection of men, self-selected to be reported as it was both criminal and newsworthy. You can’t drew conclusions about men from that, and more than you can about women as one chose to sleep with 100 men in a day for money.

Apologies for the typos but the sense is clear…

It is a form of self harm to have sex with men you don't know or like or feel attracted to, while in discomfort and pain, in order to get attention, notoriety and money. And it doesn't sound like she loves what she's doing to get that attention and money, either physically or emotionally, so yes I'd say it's a form of self harm.

But, as I said above, you are looking at a very very rarefied selection of men, self-selected to be reported as it was both criminal and newsworthy. You can’t drew conclusions about men from that, and more than you can about women as one chose to sleep with 100 men in a day for money.

I don't think it is a very rarified selection of men, and I think believing that is part of the problem. They ranged from 20s to 50s, in all kinds of jobs and all relationship statuses. These are just some of the tiny minority of men who rape women and are caught and convicted. It's like how we're always within 6 feet of a rat, we just don't know it - we all know a rapist, we just don't know we do.

@Nameychangington ,

‘ They ranged from 20s to 50s, in all kinds of jobs and all relationship statuses.’

Not a single job which would be regarded as a profession or which required a high level of education, not one! The Times published the list. So that just isn’t true as a matter of record.

You cannot draw conclusions about educational level from this, they were selected by her husband.

I don't think education makes the slightest difference, its a veneer, thats all.

Men from all walks of life rape though. Professionals and highly educated men rape, you can't think they don't? They may be more careful about getting caught, or less likely to be prosecuted if caught, or less likely to be convicted if tried - I'd be interested to know if there has been research into that actually. All kinds of men rape women.

There was not one professional on the list. Which does maybe show that education, on average, helps men understand consequences, both moral and legal.

And yet there is no shortage of Doctors and other medical professionals who have assaulted and raped patients and colleagues, some even in the middle of surgery. A quick Google reveals dozens of cases including very recent ones. Professionals are as capable of it as any man.

I am not claiming that no professionals ever rape or commit crime, merely that when you look at the intersection of societal influence over instinct, those better educated maybe commit it less.

And, again, maybe I am drawing a big conclusion from a small data set too…..which illustrates the danger of so doing!