To be so disturbed by the male race currently

[honeypotter]

All the business with Lily Philips - how many men queued up to do what they did to her

And Gisele Pelicot

Are men really that obsessed with sex that they are so desperate to rape and queue up and be solely concerned with their own depraved satisfaction.

I know it's not all men but I'm feeling so disillusioned with men in general and it seems to be getting worse and not better.

Does anyone else feel like this? Also the only people I see posting about Gisele are female.

Where are all the men??

I'm raising boys and to be honest it's terrifying to look at my innocent children and the world they are growing up in.

Well your boys will grow to be men one day

So going by your thinking they won't be any different because these days it is 'all men' according to people on here

I’ve never and would never defend rapists. It’s never an excuse. Many people are abused and don’t go on to abuse. I cannot fathom how you think that’s what I’m saying.
have I said they should have lenient sentences because of it?
no
have I excused any part of their behaviour
no.
yet your the one seemingly happy for kids to go unprotected? Childhood sexual abuse causes drug issues, mental health issues, poverty.

Childhood sexual abuse is a world wide issue with world wide consequences.

Everything youve said here I completely agree with.

I just wish you’d read what I’m putting. Not what you think I’m putting.

There are so many things to address if these atrocities are to stop. The most fundamental being the deeply held belief that men are superior to women, which affords them privilege and entitlement that takes priority over our wellbeing. Everything comes back to that in the end.
This is why we can't have a discussion about the problem without people trying to defend men, tell us the problem isn't real, that women are just as bad, that we are condemning the bad when we should be focusing on the good. Because if you've spent your whole life absorbing the messages that this set of people is better than that set, more fit to rule over us, make and enforce laws, set the agenda for our lives, and protect us and our children, there's a lot of investment in believing those people are the right ones to do it.
To see these heinous behaviours as being 'male' rather than resulting from a serise of glitches in the system, abuse as a child, a bad woman influencing them, an aberration from a tiny minority, is too big to face because it makes us question everything. People need to see men as good and better (though they will contest the second) because that's the only way it makes sense and makes us feel safe in the power they have over us.

Well said. And nothing will change as long as porn is tolerated.
If porn is safe and consensual why has it escalated to violence in only a few decades?

‘I’ve never and would never defend rapists. ‘

re-read your posts. Luckily the French courts don’t believe any of their bullshit and convicted them all. Too short sentences obvs, but thank god no-one believed their ‘defence’ of the indefensible

I know what I put

it is indefensible and the courts were (unduly) lenient on those who used it as mitigating. It should never even have been mentioned in their summing up of each person.

but you crack on thinking it doesn’t matter that kids are being abused and has no consequences.

Porn needs to be banned.
We need to make being a "punter" illegal including those men who lined up and ban surrogacy whilst we are at it and remove males from women's spaces to avoid voyeurism.

Anything that commodifies women's bodies needs to be stopped.

Liberal feminism is the worst lie ever sold to women. Bring back the radical feminism/2nd wave.

There is nothing empowering about sex work, porn or stripping, it only ever benefits men.

4000 men who can't get a girlfriend or a woman willing to shag them . This is why men hate women because we will only willingly open our legs for them if we deem them fit to do so . We hold a lot of power over men in this respect . I do believe a lot of men would rape women especially ones they see as unobtainable , or to punish ones they don't like , or have upset them in some way as a way of taking back power .

Contempt for her

‘4000 men who can't get a girlfriend or a woman willing to shag them’

no, you know these men will have girlfriends and wives. Don’t you? You know they have daughters and mothers and sisters too.
You know this.
THATS the problem. Claiming that these men are weird in some way, that rapists are single or ‘deprived’ of sex.
They are ordinary run of the mill men.

Porn has little to do with it imho, the men who take part in rape campaigns in war over the centuries have never watched porn... there is something in men to have sex with anyone available or not.

Look at the terrible campaigns of rape used in war, some women in Germany- WW2 - would kill themselves rather than be caught by Russian soldiers, women in more recent wars in Africa and Yugoslavia have literally been raped to death.

Long before porn was a "thing" my mum told me "Many men despise women" & i think this is very true, the men queuing up for LP will justify their behavior too.

I do find the comparisons between the men who went with Phillips and Gisele P rather weird, one cohort are criminals and animals, the other lot took part in an orgy of sex, with a willing participant & no one on here knows her mental state or otherwise, lazy to to class her as mentally ill etc, she might be, she might also see it as a way to earn an awful lot of money very quickly and then return to a normal life.... if so, she may have a a bit of a shock.

To compare this to actual rape, does genuine rape victims a huge dis service.

Have 100 mem violate you is very different to being married to 1 rich man.
Would you be happy if this was your daughter, sister or mother?

If her mother is organising her finances and 'supporting' her why don't she offer to sleep with 100 men?
Her mother is complcit in this abuse too.

@louddumpernoise so your opinion is because men rape porn is ok?

You are ridiculous.

Porn is being accessed on mobile phones by teenage boys, porn is increasingly violent and you wonder why the sexual assault stats have gone up In secondary schools?

Majority of those victims are girls.

Porn is a blight.

Technology is at at point where everything is consumable (I work in tech) we have the dark web, porn hub, and sites like the one those men that raped Giselle huddle to plan how to incite each other into rape.

Things have changed, we need to work out how to stop men consuming women's bodies and raping them. Yes it's a man problem.

We should have moved on from the days of 'long before porn was a thing' though, shouldn't we? Because on the surface, we've come a long way. We have laws now that are supposed to protect us and change the traditional way we have been viewed, and typically, if you force a change in behaviour attitude follows. Yet it hasn't. Its getting worse.
And worryingly the upsurge in male VAWG including sexual crime is 'trending young'. Why is that? Why despite the strides in equality made by women over the decades, our increased visibility, our supposed greater representation, why are young men committing more crimes against young women?
People will point to Andrew Tate, but he hasn't got the power to have created this problem. He's tapping into something that's already there and is a compelling and strong pull for men. We've already had posters point out how central sex is to male behaviour, so how can we then suggest that the huge amounts of easily accessible sexual imagery available to them is a neutral force?

You only have to look at the mass sexual assaults in Egypt to know that is not porn, or men who can't get a shag, or odd men, it's just men as a group.

"Five hundred cases of mass sexual assault were documented between June 2012 and June 2014." in Egypt

Lumping in Gisele Pelicot with a high charging, rich prostitute is an insult to Pelicot and other victims of rape.

What a pathetic way to talk about rape.

People aren't lumping together the women in the scenario, they're lumping together the men in relation to the shared characteristics of the two groups. This has been explained several times on the thread, but still people seem set on taking offense about something that no one is saying as a diversion from what actually is being said. The two women are entirely different. The two groups of men involved in their situations share similarities with each other.

www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/pelicot-horrors-are-waking-world-up-to-porn-t8l7t37ft

HTH all those people thinking porn isn't the issue

You see it's this simplistic analysis that doesn't help.

Misogyny exists, patriarchy exists, porn is part of that.

JFC is not that hard!!

Mark my words, in 5-10 years Lily won't be a well rounded, wealthy woman. She'll be damaged and probably doing tell all interviews about how awful it was.
If she's lucky she won't go the way of Katie Price, but I sadly doubt it.

JFC comments don't help either.

Porn is indeed misogynistic but you have to ask what came first.
Men have been raping women, as far as I'm aware, before porn came about.

Men rape women because they can not because of porn, or other external influences.

There are also some key differences. One was a group of rapists and the other wasn't.

And so...? I'm not sure why you think that distinction is worth labouring? So the men who queued by for sex with LP haven't committed a criminal act. Is that the bar we're setting for decency in men? Don't do anything that will may get you a custodial sentence and placed on the sex offenders register...beyond that, fill your boots, nothing to concern ourselves with? The OP gave two seperate examples of abhorrent male behaviour to say why she was concerned. She is asking us to consider the similarities, not highlight the differences to minimise the behaviour of one group by comparison with the other.