What Should I Have Said? Re: Holocaust

[TowerRavenSeven]

Recently dh and I attended an acquaintances party. The host’s wife recently moved from Germany. Our son was supposed to do an internship there (ended up changing plans) so naturally we were speaking about Germany. Out of the blue, she says ‘you know, it’s been 80 some years, can’t we (meaning Germany) move on from feeling guilty about the Holocaust? We’ve said we’re sorry, can’t we just move on from it?”
My mouth dropped open and I know I gave a deer in the headlights stare. She wasn’t really asking a question it was more of a remark. I know I was being unreasonable not saying anything - I Wanted to say, no we can’t forget, we must remember! But as their guest it made me so extremely uncomfortable, I didn’t want to have a row with the hosts at their home. She already knew how I felt with my mouth dropping open and - but if this ever happens again, what is a good response to such a statement?

I'm so confused, did you bring up the Holocaust with her at a party? And if so, why?

In general, no I don't think we should ever stop talking about the Holocaust (except maybe at parties...). It's too obvious that it could so easily happen again so I'm all about Never Forget. But I'm not sure it's something I feel the need to discuss with every German I meet if that makes sense!

I agree with you that we can't forget.
I agree with her that Germany as it exists today and the vast vast majority of people who live there should not feel guilty for an atrocity they themselves took no part in.

You probably did the right thing by keeping a tactful silence. She's an acquaintance of an acquaintance, you weren't going to change her perspective and you don't know her, so outrage is pointless.

Many people have repugnant attitudes to all sorts of things in life, doesn't mean you have to respond or start an argument about it,

What a naive and stupid thing she said. She's obviously had her head in the sand re. the atrocious and overt anti-Semitism being displayed at pro-Palestine marches in the past year. Not to mention that it's been just over a year since the largest number of Jews were massacred in one day since the Holocaust.

I think mouth dropping open with horrified look on one’s face is actually a great response.If that’s her starting point, I doubt getting into a debate with her at a party is a good move.

Always to be remembered.

Edited for terrible spelling…

A bit more context needed. Immediately before her comment, was the convo more “Isn’t Berlin lovely in autumn?” or “Yes you did, you invaded Poland?”

What was said to prompt her comments? Were they really "out of the blue" i.e. no one else had mentioned the Holocaust?

I agree that German people today should not have to shoulder the guilt for what happened. That's not the same as saying it should be forgotten.

In that exact situation I’d find it hard not to say that I hadn’t been talking about the holocaust and she had brought it up herself.
Otherwise I’d probably start talking about genocide in general, but that’s something that is connected with my work, so comes up a fair amount anyway.

What exactly did you say about Germany and the Holocaust ?
I agree, never forget, but there is a time and a place for certain subjects.

Who brought up the Holocaust?

Context?

Definitely this. There's a lot you could be talking about in relation to modern Germany rather than connecting your son's potential internship to the Holocaust.
If she brought it up out of the blue, then she's clearly feeling extremely defensive.

Did you say he had been planning to go to Auschwitz when she was telling about places he should still visit when he has the chance?

She's a twat, but 'talking about Germany' could have sparked a massive brain fart.

No of course I didn’t bring it up! She did!

Gosh no, I wouldn't go mentioning it to every German I met, DONT MENTION THE WAR

I mean the Brits invented concentration camps. I'd be pretty fed up if people felt I was still somehow culpable.

Sorry I meant to add to my previous post, she was speaking about her family still living there. And then came out with that comment!

It's quite strange how Britain gets so much flack for things way further back than ww2, people feel free to hate us and it's accepted. Yet you don't see the same sort of hate for Germany/Germans.

I must say, it's an atrocious and random comment to say especially at a dinner. But I too OP would've been shocked and I also agree with you. I've visited Auschwitz and it's a sight I will never forget. How random to bring that up!

When I visit sites in Germany that are connected with WW2, I notice that the guides are clear that the atrocities were committed by Nazi's as opposed to Germans. The events are, and should be, remembered.

you should have replied saying how aghast you were and that she of course should personally feel mortified for the actions of people who lived in the same country she was born in many years ago.
after all not a day passes that you or any other self respecting Brit isn’t consumed with shame at the atrocities committed by their ancestors across the globe.

Had you all been drinking?
I wonder if she meant ‘move on from the guilt’ ?

I think, around the world, many people automatically associate Germany with the Holocaust and Germans with compliance. Maybe she feels judged when she meets people from other countries, and she blurted out her thoughts.
Dunno. People are funny

I think she has a point. If anyone was complicit, it would be one or more grandparents or greatgrandparents. There are only a handful of people alive now that would have been adult Nazis during the Holocaust. Saying the country has said sorry and asking people to move on from blaming today’s Germans for the Holocaust isn’t asking people to forget it happened. Germany has paid reparations for the war and 70yrs of reparations to Holocaust survivors and their Jewish descendants.

I have no idea why this would make you uncomfortable 🥴

No one said the host was culpable. The host brought the subject up and then dismissed it, which many people, including myself, would find insulting and disrespectful.

if she didn’t want to talk about it, don’t bring it up. If you want to bring it up and talk about it, do it respectfully.

Host clearly has no social skills or self awareness.

If I'd said anything at all, I might have sidestepped a direct reply by engaging her in a discussion about Bernhard Schlink's novel "The Reader" because that is exactly what it is about - the struggle to come to terms with the past in Germany for the generations since the war.

What was her response to your silence/facial expression OP?