What Should I Have Said? Re: Holocaust

[TowerRavenSeven]

Recently dh and I attended an acquaintances party. The host’s wife recently moved from Germany. Our son was supposed to do an internship there (ended up changing plans) so naturally we were speaking about Germany. Out of the blue, she says ‘you know, it’s been 80 some years, can’t we (meaning Germany) move on from feeling guilty about the Holocaust? We’ve said we’re sorry, can’t we just move on from it?”
My mouth dropped open and I know I gave a deer in the headlights stare. She wasn’t really asking a question it was more of a remark. I know I was being unreasonable not saying anything - I Wanted to say, no we can’t forget, we must remember! But as their guest it made me so extremely uncomfortable, I didn’t want to have a row with the hosts at their home. She already knew how I felt with my mouth dropping open and - but if this ever happens again, what is a good response to such a statement?

Everyone knows what happened at concentration camps.

There is no rule against talking about it at a party. She said she wanted to move on FROM THE GUILT, not forget about it.
We must remember it for ever, but it's time for ordinary Germans living now to stop blaming themselves is what I presume she was saying and I agree with that.

I don't blame myself for anything my grandparents did.

Tell this to everyone demanding the uk pay reparations and apologise for things that happened centuries ago! Why is it ok for Germany to move on from something that happened so relatively recently yet ppl are so eager to shriek how shitty ‘colonial Great Britain’ is for our past and refuse to move on from it?

What a very weird lady

I suppose in that situation I would have agreed that collective guilt doesn't seem helpful three generations on and said that it's for the whole of Europe to remember what happened and be vigilant against anti-semitism and extremism.

Germany has completely accepted its part in WWII.

Nor do I. But if my grandparents were serial rapists and murders, I sure as hell wouldn’t choose it as a topic to discuss at a party and I wouldn’t be talking about how we just need to “move on” from it.

Because "Great Britain" doesn't feel bad about it.

It’s right there
”…move on from feeling guilty.”
No even a whisper of forget about it.

" I wouldn’t be talking about how we just need to “move on” from it."

She didn't say just 'move on', she said 'move on from the GUILT', which I agree with.

I’m with her. We should move on from thinking of ourselves as the glorious victors in WW2 too.

Germany has paid reparations

The difference is Germany has paid billions in reparations for WWII to the allies and to the survivors of the Holocaust and their descendants.

I’m Jewish too 😂

I don’t refuse to talk about it, at all. But I do find it dismissive and disrespectful to bring it up for the sole purpose to then suggest we need to “move on” from blame.

No one blames the innocent living. But 80 years isn’t a long time and often racism does pass on through generations of families. I’m not suggesting the host was antisemetic, but I do find her choice of conversation and her subsequent dismissiveness, very questionable.

I’m confused OP, where did she ask to forget about the holocaust?

‘you know, it’s been 80 some years, can’t we (meaning Germany) move on from feeling guilty about the Holocaust? We’ve said we’re sorry, can’t we just move on from it?”

Which part did you object to? She didn’t deny it happened (which would be terrible), she wants the country to move on.

It’s meaningless anyway. People have forgotten, look what’s happening in Palestine. Never again… except to Muslims.

We had some German students live with us for a term and they articulated much better this kind of sentiment, that they feel even though they were born many decades later they still have to carry a kind of national guilt and shame for what happened. They did feel they kind of have to apologise for it in quite a personal way. We enjoyed their company immensely but I do think a German in the UK can attract a few WW2/ Hitler type comments occasionally.

I think I agree with this POV

Bizarre for her to bring it up unprompted like that. I think your acting surprised and speechless was an ideal response.

A few skeletons in the family closet is hardly comparable.

I don't see the issue with what she's said.

She didn't say 'shouldn't we move on from the Holocaust' or 'shouldn't we just forget the Holocaust'.

She said 'move on from the GUILT of the Holocaust.'

And I think she has a point.

Germany has been shaped as a nation by the actions of the Nazis. Yet the generation responsible for the atrocities committed by them has almost died out. For how long should the German people feel they need to carry the guilt of the Holocaust?

I think you have misunderstood her point, OP. She's not denying the Holocaust or suggesting no one should remember it. She's saying she and her fellow citizens shouldn't have to carry the burden of guilt for the actions of their ancestors. And I quite agree. I feel the same way about people who insist we need to pay reparations for slavery. No, I'm sorry, I am not responsible for the sins of people who were alive four generations ago.

Oh dear. You probably need to do some reading on this subject.

I don’t know if any Jewish person would refer to the Holocaust as “a massacre.”
That was disrespectful and dismissive.

What was said immediately before the holocaust comment? Did you mention something 'adjacent to the holocaust'? If that makes sense.

For example, 'Yes Germany's such a wonderful country, but most people in the UK still associate it with the war'

Or something remotely like that. Otherwise I just can't see why she would suddenly remark that. She sounds unhinged.

Never forget though we --and Germany especially- clearly have not learned or remembered enough not to inflict genocide and ethnic cleansing on Palestinians. Sadly, this is part of the legacy of the Holocaust and should be named alongside the collective pain.

This is so true.I agree with your SA friend.

There are even people on this thread rushing to say Britain has been maligned for slavery and had to take responsibility etc when the truth is Britain has taken far less accountability for atrocities committed during slavery and the empire - the latter which ended relatively recently - than the Germans have for the Holocaust. They make sure it’s taught widely in schools, they have various laws designed to guard against it happening again and they paid reparations.

I don’t agree with what the person who said that OP, but you need to realise British people say that kind of stuff all the time in relation to their own history. I hope you’re just as shocked when that happens.

It’s the double standards that gets me.