Pissed off at sister's snobby comment

[Ontherocksthisyear]

This happened a couple weeks ago, but it has really annoyed me the more I think about it. I haven't come out and said its annoyed me, but I wish I had at the time. It's also not the first comment like this she has made.

Anyway, I have just finished a masters. Not that it maybe matters but I did this while being a mum to my DD, being pregnant with my DS (I had terrible nausea all throughout my pregnancy). This master also included placements, so it wasn't just a case of sitting at home writing essays. So I was massively proud of myself and hugely relieved when I finally finished and got my degree.

Anyway, I was out for my birthday lunch with my family and told my sister that I had finished and passed my course, she congratulated me. We were then discussing which uni her son was thinking of going to, I mentioned the one I had just got my degree from (not the best uni in the world granted, but not bad either). Bare in mind my nephew wants to stay fairly local because of health issues, so it's either the one in his city, or the one I mentioned (neighbouring city), or another uni in a neighbouring city.

When i mentioned this my sister screwed up her face and said pretty bluntly 'it's not a very good uni is it', I then said 'well it depends on what you study, it is great for certain sciences and the programme i was on is one of the best in country' she then screwed up her face again as if she thought I was talking a load of shit and reiterated how it wasn't a good uni.

Anyway, I am quite annoyed. I understand she wants the best for her son... but she knows I have literally just got a degree from here. I mean, I literally just told her and she congratulated me. Is this rude of her?

Not true. Will depend entirely on the subject.

She's rude and ignorant. I don't actually understand this snobbishness about unis in the UK.

well if you don't know the difference between bare and bear, maybe she has a point.

I hate this university snobbery. I work at a Russell Group uni now, but did my undergraduate at an ex poly and it was great.

So you will recommend your univ to anyone but your dd. Does not sound right to me.
Don't advice others in this matter if you cannot be fair.

It's in many places, not just in UK. People want reasons to feel superior.

For someone with a lot of education, your Dsis isn't very well-informed, is she? There are very few universities that are all good or all bad. Students vary enormously in terms of their backgrounds, needs and aspirations so there is no such thing as one size fits all.

I did my first bachelor degree at a poly when they were polys, my second with the OU, my masters at another ex-poly and I've stayed there for my PhD, because I know the university and the city and most of all, I have two lovely supervisors. My DH did his BA at the same poly I did mine. On the back of a great deal of relevant work experience, he got a place on a masters course and on the back of his merit and a ton more relevant work experience, he's doing his PhD at a university in the north of England. It's an RG institution, but my DH was more interested in the fact that the faculty tacks towards welfare law, rather than, say business, which is favoured by the law faculty at my university. (Law's not my thing, but DH considered all the viable options.)

However, we are both sixty-something doctoral students. When we were teenagers with less than stellar A' Level results we just wanted places at university/poly on courses we were interested in. Young people looking for something very specific, eg, medicine, agricultural studies, engineering etc would have had different needs again. Whether a particular institution is good or not depends largely on whether it's right for you.

😅😅😅

I was at the higher education equivalent of St Oiks. I even got to hobnob with people who were as working class as me! Having said that, my degree was in international studies, which included a module on foreign policy. I don't know what happens now, but in 1983 no such subject was offered at school and we went straight in at the deep end. I can remember the first year course leader saying something like "you lot know nothing about foreign policy. Get these books, read this, this and this. . .off you go!" Once the reading lists come in and the work starts piling up, all thoughts about where else you could be if you'd had better A Level results fade to a background hum at the most.

I think the sister was rude. However why wouldn’t you encourage your child to go to the best uni they can? First degree Cambridge, now doing one with OU. May well end up studying with a low ranking uni after this. Makes no difference to me. I’d be proud to get any Masters. Depending on subject would be encouraging DS to go to the best uni he can get into.

Maybe people encourage their DC to go to the uni they want to go to? There's more to it than league tables.

Because, unless it's a very niche area, it doesn't make any difference. I studied at an ex poly and then Oxford and University of Leeds. The ex poly was miles better. I thoroughly enjoyed every single day, the course was incredible, the lecturers cared and I'm still friends with them now. The other two? Dull, dry, uninterested in students entirely.

No employer (again, unless niche) cares. The DC should choose based on their interests, not how high ranking the entire university is.

There's literally a whole debate about it here with people from various academic backgrounds explaining why it makes no difference.

It's an interesting perspective. Say he wants to do economics I would say look at predicted grades, look at ranks of Unis for economics, see where you are likely to get into and go for it. Obviously you might rule some out for any number of reasons, but that would be my starting point. Seems to be how the sixth forms work too in their advice. Are you saying ignore that and just go on basis of, what?? I'm asking genuinely and not being rude.

that is definitely a risk - ha ha. I really fancy Scotland, DS is never going there!

Honestly, it doesn't work that way. Look at departments, look at lecturers, contact them even. Ask for outlines of the course, find out their niche research and see if it lines up with interests. That's what's important - you want to be surrounded by people who are going to support and be interesting in the subject. Not some old fogey who just cares about his own book!

My husband is in academia and says it's nonsense. My own experience, and that of all our academic friends in various department, say the same. I'm a senior manager and I don't even look at employees university, and my field is difficult to get into. Thankfully, that mindset of it mattering is being left far in the past and has been for a while now.

We can't look through courses for 150+ unis. Rankings are about student satisfaction, external accreditation, research etc. So we would start with subject rankings and entry requirements and use that as the long list and go from there...

My friend, who now has a very successful law company that she set up in her late 20s did her law degree through CILEX at night school. And there is huge snobbery around law degrees - but she’s a lot more successful than most people I know who went to RG Universities.
Yanbu, your sister was a bit rude.

Or you could look at five that are in areas of choice and check them out. If they fail, try again. It's about student satisfaction, and I honestly find the highest ranking aren't necessarily true to form. The maths department at Durham might be astounding, but the English abysmal. But its high ranking on student satisfaction might come mainly from the maths department.

Leeds had very high ranking student satisfaction. My entire class was bloody depressed. 😂 I mean, it's one way of doing it but personally I'd recommend finding a few you like the look of and investigating. That's what a lot of teachers I know are being taught to tell their students now as they pick unis; they do the same in several universities I know when students are picking their MA's.

@GiddyRobin if you don’t even look at where someone went to uni what is it that makes you think it’s so hard to get into your company/career? What do you look for in candidates that makes it hard to get in? As for your DH, there are about 10 PhD students for every available academic job so it’s highly competitive. Not sure what subject area he works in but I’m quite surprised by his view.

Despite your views, people who do really well at school don’t tend to go to the lower ranked unis - people will usually aim higher than this. And many large employers will tend to target the better unis when it comes to recruitment. Great if your company doesn’t but lots of places do. If there wasn’t a benefit/pay off to attending a highly ranked university, why would so many bother to do so?

Do you also believe that a 2.1 from Oxford is the same and involves the same amount of work as a 2.1 from Sunderland? Because that’s not true either.

I don't know why you keep coming back to me; your field is astoundingly different and profoundly snobby. I've explained how it works multiple times - you are niche. Things have changed in many, many other subjects.

Your opinion on this is your own, but it doesn't exist across the board. Another academic has told you the same thing. So I honestly don't see the point in mindlessly repeating myself; you may as well go and read back on my previous answers, since you've clearly got a bee in your bonnet.

No I think you are niche and you seem desperate to prove that it doesn’t matter at all where you go to university when it does, hence why so many parents are so keen on getting their kids into the top institutions.

Anyway hiding the thread now, enjoy your evening

Okay then. You've been told the same thing by another academic, a HoD too, but fine by me. I'll ignore my own professor husband, every academic I've ever known and worked with, push aside my own experience, because some random law tutor on MN says so. 😂

All of this disagreement and point-scoring actually just reinforces how much snobbery (inverted or otherwise) there is about the cachet of particular institutions and goes some way to illustrating why the OP's sister feels as she does. The real issue here is the way that she behaved towards the OP; that said, if the OP won't address how the lack of empathy affected her, then the sister has no chance of apologising and putting things right should she be so inclined.

I said: "I have been very happy with the course, teaching, opportunities and the whole experience and would recommend it to anyone."

I would recommend my course to anyone. I would not recommend my uni as the best choice for an undergraduate degree for my DD.

As the OP and others have said, this can vary very much depending on the particular subject.

For example, I went to a university that is usually ranked within the Top 10 in the world. My DS studied a very similar course to the one I did a generation earlier but at quite a different university.

Interestingly, in this particular field, graduates of this course at the, rather minor, university he studied at are now amongst the most sought after by recruiters in this field.

This has led to an amazing increase in the required grades for this course (and related ones) at this university. They are generally asking A star A star A with A stars in both maths and further maths. (or all A stars for those not taking further maths).

That is considerably above offers that are made in other areas.

Sometimes, some universities are just particularly strong in certain areas compared to their general performance.