Pissed off at sister's snobby comment

[Ontherocksthisyear]

This happened a couple weeks ago, but it has really annoyed me the more I think about it. I haven't come out and said its annoyed me, but I wish I had at the time. It's also not the first comment like this she has made.

Anyway, I have just finished a masters. Not that it maybe matters but I did this while being a mum to my DD, being pregnant with my DS (I had terrible nausea all throughout my pregnancy). This master also included placements, so it wasn't just a case of sitting at home writing essays. So I was massively proud of myself and hugely relieved when I finally finished and got my degree.

Anyway, I was out for my birthday lunch with my family and told my sister that I had finished and passed my course, she congratulated me. We were then discussing which uni her son was thinking of going to, I mentioned the one I had just got my degree from (not the best uni in the world granted, but not bad either). Bare in mind my nephew wants to stay fairly local because of health issues, so it's either the one in his city, or the one I mentioned (neighbouring city), or another uni in a neighbouring city.

When i mentioned this my sister screwed up her face and said pretty bluntly 'it's not a very good uni is it', I then said 'well it depends on what you study, it is great for certain sciences and the programme i was on is one of the best in country' she then screwed up her face again as if she thought I was talking a load of shit and reiterated how it wasn't a good uni.

Anyway, I am quite annoyed. I understand she wants the best for her son... but she knows I have literally just got a degree from here. I mean, I literally just told her and she congratulated me. Is this rude of her?

Also I doubt that it is that she is jealous. She is probably just a snob and doesn’t want her son going somewhere she doesn’t class as prestigious.

Think Hyacinth Bucket!😁

My DH's previous HoD got hers from a poly, and a 2.2. She's a well known professor. Another friend of ours (also in academia) got theirs from a poly. When we've discussed it in groups, the idea of it mattering is laughed at - and it's a very prestigious university. DH occasionally still supervises PhD students and says there's absolutely no difference between a former poly student and a RG student.

In my field, it's niche. Renowned for being very difficult to get into, especially my publishing house. It makes absolutely no difference to anyone where they went to university.

I find it hard to believe it makes zero difference in academia. I work in academia and i can’t think of anyone in my department who has a PhD from a former poly. I can only think of a couple of people who did their undergrad at a former poly too.

I'm an academic and HoD and a significant number of my staff have PhDs from former polytechnics.

Former polytechnics were awarded university status in 1992, I think we can just refer to them as universities now. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Maybe it depends on your field. In mine there are very few. That might be due to snobbery but also because post 92s get very little funding.

Maybe it depends on your field. In mine there are very few. That might be due to snobbery but also because post 92s get very little funding.

There will be some variations in subjects for sure.

What do you mean by post 92 universities get very little funding?

Interesting but really not reflective of my experience and especially the claim that there is no difference between an RG and a former poly student - often there is quite a wide gap.
I think it does depend on area but for instance if you look at top barristers chambers, almost everyone went to Oxbridge and nobody studied outside the Russell Group

As in they are usually not able to offer PhD students funding for their studies. They also get little of the funding allocated by the government for high quality research. Their staff are also less likely to win grant funding.

This ^

Your experience is also vastly different to mine. When I did my PhD, we had a mix of students - RG uni. Lots of different backgrounds, no one cared. Maybe in very specific subjects there's more snobbery, but certainly not in English Literature, history, the social sciences, and philosophy, and maths. That's our wider group - most academics.

I don't believe your claim about the students being different at all. That's quite odd. I actually know several people who were at Oxbridge for their entire education, and quite honestly they're not doing brilliantly in their careers. Obviously that's just a tiny insight, but something I've noticed.

Why would it be odd? I’ve taught at both types of institutions. At my current one you need AAA to get in for a subject where you needed CCD at a previous institution I worked at. The students at my current institution are inevitably brighter and more able than the ones at the previous institution. There are exceptions for sure but it’s not strange that someone who did significantly better at school would be more able than someone who did not.

As in they are usually not able to offer PhD students funding for their studies. They also get little of the funding allocated by the government for high quality research. Their staff are also less likely to win grant funding.

Not necessarily true.
It's very subject specific.

I don't think you can say there's no such thing as a "bad" university, just as you can't say there's no such thing as a "bad" NHS hospital or trust.

(I should know - I worked for years in the NHS trust that was the first to go into special measures twice and it still regularly hits the news for "bad" reasons.

Just console yourself with the fact that if she is a lawyer she is already a sub optimal life-form🫣

So many people still living more than 30 years ago in their minds!!

Is your sister a mumsnetter? She’d fit right in here 😄

There is such a thing as a "bad" uni if you are only interested in the bragging rights......

Also show me the numbers of academics in history and English (two subjects with very few jobs available) who studied at ex-poly universities. It’s virtually impossible to get a job in those areas and the standards are very very high.

here are the staff for history at an ex-poly, UWE. None studied at a post-1992 university:
www.uwe.ac.uk/news/find-an-expert/history

It's interesting.

I did my first degree 40 years ago at a polytechnic and three years later did a master's degree at the University of London (LSE).

While I had no problem with the standard of teaching at the LSE it was certainly no better than at my poly.

Okay well I’m coming from social sciences/humanities perspective and PhD funding in post-92s is incredibly limited and most students there are self funding

Many ex-polys do excellent vocational courses that lead to good careers. It's not all about RG universities at all. It totally depends on the course.

And to the pp - law firms absolutely do look at other universities outside Oxbridge and RG as they want to improve their diversity. As do most employers. It's no longer the 1990s.

Russell Group is a meaningless marketing term, which tells you very little about the quality of teaching received

This ^^

Yes for subjects like that you generally need a (more) traditional university background.

But for something like law or business or computer-related courses it's much more mixed. Even back in the 90s ex-polys like Kingston and Nottingham were very highly regarded for law and graduates from there did training contracts with Magic Circle firms.

It's increasingly becoming about subject not university. If you have a Masters in data science you are not going to be unemployed for long!

If I had my time over again I'd do data science or environmental science. Or a mix of both!

You can be very academic and have a mediocre career.

Equally you can get a 2.2 from an ex-poly and end up very successful indeed.

Good academics open doors but ultimately it's the soft skills that count.

Law is my area. There are exceptionally few students from former polys in the magic circle. In fact over 40% of magic circle trainees went to Oxbridge. The majority of the rest went to other RG universities. It’s one of the snobbiest subjects and professions you could find actually.
Nottingham is an RG so you may mean Nottingham Trent but that’s misleading as they used to run a practical course that aspiring solicitors and barristers had to do but the ones who did that course didn’t necessarily go there for undergraduate studies.