To rip MIL a new one?

[Someadvice]

For some context I’m late 20’s, engaged to be married next year to DP. MIL is a difficult woman. She is interfering and struggled to cut the cord with DP.

We now have strong boundaries with her as if we didn’t she would attempt to interfere in every inch of our lives. I don’t dislike her but do struggle (as does my DP) with her in more than short doses.

My relationship with my own Mother is strained at best. She is a narcissist and I grew up in a volatile household. I was placed on the child protection register as a teenager due to neglect and I almost ended up in care. I am low contact with her and would prefer it if it was no contact but familial relationships make this impossible as she controls them all. She can be fine for a while and then she will do something that causes me extreme upset so it is better if I just do not communicate with her unless necessary.

MIL has taken it upon herself to try and forge a relationship with my Mother despite having never met her and despite being told not to. She found her on Facebook and will constantly message her with details of our lives. Telling her what we’re up to and that we’re going to see her and do things with her. This has been led to abusive messages from my own Mum asking why we never go and see her.

My DP has told his Mum time and time again to leave my Mother alone. I’ve heard him on the phone, I’ve seen messages, he’s even gone to her house and sat her down for a chat. Told her I don’t really get along with my own Mum and it’s difficult and she shouldn’t get involved. She listens for a bit and then it starts again. The straw has broke the camels back today and I’ve found out MIL has invited my Mum over for a Christmas trip out and my Mum has accepted. I am fuming. I have done so well and been through years of therapy to help work through my childhood and keep my Mother at arms length and MIL is ruining all of my progress.

She clearly is not listening to DP. We are due to visit her for our annual Xmas visit in a few days and I want to rip her head off. I genuinely do not want to fall out with her but I’m not sure how else to get through to her here?

Stop seeing MIL all together. She has been told not to contact your mum and far from stopping she is escalating. It's not that she doesn't understand the request but that she is ignoring it. You can't make her stop contacting your mum but you don't have to see her or tell her anything about your life.

Don't feel bad about the dysfunctional dynamics in both yours and your partners families, some families are like that and the best thing you can do is break the pattern by not engaging.

I wonder if MIL sees it as a back handed way to get at you? She says ostensibly nice things to your mother about you, knowing that your mum will attack you over them. Then MIL gets to act butter wouldn't melt because she can't possibly be at fault because she said nice things.

This is probably good advice even if difficult to take.

If your MIL is rather thick, prone to interfering in her own children's lives, and a bit bored, she might take it upon herself to bring the family together. She'll be imagining some sort of perfect Disney Christmassy ending.

Some people just totally lack the ability to read between the lines. She's probably thinking "Oh! Sometimes my children get cross with me!" (which sounds likely ...) and imagining the same kind of scenario, not an abusive one. I know it goes against the grain to tell this insensitive woman such deep personal details, but if you marry her son she'll probably find out eventually anyway.

1. Ime it is totally normal for the parents (mothers) of a married couple to forge their own independent relationship/friendship and for that to include discussing the couple/any grandchildren as well as other things. This could well include meeting up for a day out together, etc.

2. In this case if your MIL has been told specifically about issues in very explicit, non-euphemistic terms (child protection order etc) and the trouble it would cause you to share information in this way, then she is still being unreasonable.
   She may (due to point 1) believe that you are BU to try to prevent her having that relationship of her own and that you two don't get to control who she can be friends with, but in this case if it causes harm to you (which you must demonstrate to her by explaining about email comeback etc so she understands) then she has to choose one or the other (and it should be you and her son that she picks!).
   Be aware that if you cut her off and she carries on seeing your mum then she will only be hearing her side of the story and might become concerned for her own son - feeling that you are an evil cutter-off of perfectly nice mothers and have now led her son astray and forced him to cut her off too.

This. Nothing will help but going super low to NC

Your MiL is either a stone cold idiot or she is doing this maliciously. Either way, she's not a safe person to share any personal info with.

As a stop gap until you can consider going NC with your mum, could you get a new SIM or dumb phone with a number only she has? Something that would keep her nasty messages away from the rest of your life and in a place where you can choose to read them when you need/want to

Exactly this

@Someadvice those that have never experienced toxic familial relationships and associated trauma often struggle to comprehend the severity, impact and reality of what you lived through. It’s so alien to them and maybe your mum presents as so ‘normal’ that it makes it seem implausible to MIL that what you experienced was really all that bad.

It may be that your MIL really is that oblivious, it may be that she is being cruel either way it doesn’t matter as the outcome is the same regardless of her intent. Even if it is a lack of understanding her bullish attitude and thought process of ‘I’m right’ makes what she is doing ultimately cruel.

She is hurting you and despite being told multiple times, is refusing to do anything to prevent you further harm. She has been warned, time to block on social media and cut off all contact. Show her actions have consequences, she clearly isn’t going to understand any other way.

Edited to add:: I also agree with other posters that she needs to know very clearly why you have issues with your mother, she may be under some illusion she can fix this as she likes to interfere. If she really does know the reason for low contact then there’s no excuse for what she’s doing.

"You are alienating me by consistently going against my wishes, and hurting me very much by having this relationship with my mother. It causes me great heartache and distress that you care so little for me that you have no qualms about causing me so much pain.
I don't feel like I want to see you as I know you'll continue to go against my express wishes, and your actions will affect our relationship for ever. You know that this is hurting me, and still you do it. It's unkind."

It's more than just unfortunate wording.

Looking ahead I would be worried that, if the relationship between DM and MIL continues, MIL will facilitate DM seeing any DC behind the OP’s back which, presumably, OP would hate. Therefore I think NC may be the best option.

Op, it's sad mil has done this I wonder if she doesn't understand and feels sorry for your mum.

Unfortunately I can't see any way around this other than immediately cutting mil off no phone calls or contact until she gets the message.
She can have a relationship with her son and his bride to be or your mum?

End of no negotiations just do it and mean it.

If mil kicks off very calm, I'm sorry but we told you not too and instead of respecting our wishes you are doing the opposite so it looks like you have made a choice.

I'd say this was extremely serious and unfortunately unless mil gets this message loud and clear it's immediately cutting contact.

Otherwise what's her motivation to listen??

There are some people who truly think they are relationship saviours and their intervention will bring everyone together. Stupid? Ignorant? Egotistical? All this and more, IMO.

I'd not rip MIL a new one. She's not worth it. Treat her like the child she's acting like. Make it known that you are very disappointed by her silly behaviour and that this is a lesson in cause and effect. You now no longer have a relationship with her and she no longer is invited to hear family news because she has proven time and time again that she has not got the capacity to retain an instruction and she cannot be trusted in any way, shape or form.

@stuckdownahole like many posters on here who wade into sensitive situations with their image of Disney

yes I thought that might happen too.

Does MIL know just how bad your mothers abuse & neglect was? Would you allow DFiance to tell her "you know child protection services were involved throught teenage years. It's not a petty falling out that you or I can make better. Every message makes the past trauma a bit closer again. I know mother doesnt present as abusive, but most abusers dont. You stop doing this, or we stop sharing anything personal with you".

Stop giving her fuel and she can't fan the flames with your own mother

Op it's really sad but if you and dh can put on a strong united front it may help and force her to give this up.

Hopefully she will see sense and you can see her again soon..
But, you and dp need to be in the same page and both act on this.

Don't visit, block her on everything

get dp to go to hers for the xmas stuff - but not stay, just give her the message that her actions mean you are not going and he is not staying
This is so terribly unkind of MIL

I am going against the grain here. Maybe she really doesn't understand how toxic your mother is /has been.
I had a relatively happy normal childhood. The occasional arguments as a teenager. Our family weren't wealthy. Mum worked part tim and Dad worked long hours.It is difficult to understand that not everyone was as lucky.

My MIL took time to grow on me. Very different background from my family. She was 10 years older than my mum. She was rather snooty and tended to look down people in general. She stopped work when she got married. She was always worried about people's perceptions of her and her rather warped idea of her place in society. My DH found it embarrassing.Yet, she produced and brought up a wonderful son.

Ultimately, maybe you both need to sit down with her and catalogue all the things that made your childhood so difficult. Explain it isn't just superficial argument. Explain how her relationship with your toxic mother is so upsetting and that you feel it is a betrayal.
Then say if you insist on befriending her you will have to reduce or terminate your relationship with DM.

Explain what non contact actually involves.
She may initially resent being told what to do.

Does your soon to be DH want to go non contact and lose his mum and family?

Let's look at what you say about your MIL:

1. "MIL is a difficult woman. She is interfering and struggled to cut the cord with DP."
2. "We now have strong boundaries with her as if we didn’t she would attempt to interfere in every inch of our lives."
3. "MIL genuinely comes across as so oblivious to everything and I’m not sure if it’s all an act to get away with it or she really is like that."

My interpretation:
She is not "oblivious" to everything, she fakes being oblivious to anything that does not suit her to acknowledge. She is self-absorbed and selfish and regards herself as The Centre Of The World. Of course she "struggled to cut the cord" - how could she not, when her son is merely an extension of herself and not a person in his own right? (Ditto not listening to him.) She interferes because, as The Centre Of The World everyone else must tug their forelock and do as she says - how else should The Centre Of The World be treated? By imposing boundaries on The Centre Of The World you have broken a Law of the Universe and that cannot be tolerated by her. And yes - lawbreakers must be punished .

I'd hazard your MIL is a bit of a narcissist, maybe milder than your mother, a different 'flavour' as it were - operates a bit more subtly than your mother, deploys 'being oblivious' as a weapon rather than being more direct. It's presumably a tactic that has worked well for her in the past. Don't fall for it - she is NOT oblivious, she knows exactly what she is doing. She is drawing your mother near to punish you, nothing else.

"I think the harder part of it to wrap my head around is that when she messages her it doesn’t look like it’s to snitch or bitch about us it’s more “oh I’m so proud of your beautiful daughter on her promotion at work what a lovely job you did of raising such a lovely woman” and then my Mum will screenshot it and use it as a stick to beat me with."
As I said, she operates more subtly than your mother, but operate she does!

I would cut contact with her, and impress upon your DP that he must not hand any ammunition to her. If she asks about you, his response should be along the lines of 'Why do you ask? So you can report back to her mother?'. He should never give ANY information, just query why she is asking and give her nothing - not even that you have asked him to give her nothing! Just deflect, deflect, deflect. He might find this difficult, after all she's trained him from birth to respond as she wishes - but that cord needs to be cut on his side too.

Congratulations on your arrangements for your wedding - very sensible.

Mil needs to be put on a very low information diet ASAP. I'm sorry to say but she sounds extremely toxic, just in a different way to what you are used to , so it can be harder to spot

Just to reiterate what @NZDreaming said - it is nearly impossible for people who have not experienced truly toxic family relationships to understand what it means. They think people like your mother can be reasoned with or will behave reasonably. If your MIL is an over-involved mother (as mine is) who likes to fix things she may well believe that you and your mother just need her intervention to sort everything out. If that is the case, your DP needs to be absolutely explicit that she is wrong and whatever her intentions she has caused far more harm than good.

Why can’t the two mothers meet up. They can make their own minds up, if they get on it would be wonderful and they will be out of your lives, like you want them to be.