To think we mums are utterly exhausted as it does take a village

[Namechsnger]

I was listening to a podcast where women were discussing the actual reason why modern day mums are absolutely exhausted cause raising a child was never a one or 2 people job but it was supported by whole extended family, lots of family members used to live together and support each other in raising children, that's what family was about. On top of that women used to stay home and not work which meant focusing solely on home and children, which I think would be easier to do than juggling home, kids and a job.
I am utterly exhausted with 2 children - a toddler and newborn and so are all my friends who have 2 children. People with one seem to be doing okay but still juggling all the plates.
I think this explains the ever slumping fertility rates in the West. Sigh!

Also, DH does a fair share of house work and childcare so that's not the solution in my case.

Yes, I think the atomisation of the wider family is at the heart of declining fertility rates too, op. It doesn't take a whole lot of additional support for it to make an enormous difference to the well being of a young family.

Meanwhile, hang on in there, op. I have three and the one toddler, one baby stage was the hardest yards from which it only ever got easier and I'm into late teen territory now.

I’d agree, a village makes it easier; and it probably is a big reason for declining birth rates (alongside cost…)

We have one toddler and I’m pregnant; but no family support at all. I’ve had a very different experience to a close friend who has two toddlers but has grandparents stay over and help with them Thursday to Sunday each week on an alternating basis.

I’m not sure it’ll ever get back to what it “was”, though. I’d say most families couldn’t afford to have someone stay at home, even if they wanted to. People who have lots of support are very lucky, as are people who can afford paid childcare or don’t have to work full time, or have a cleaner or food delivery etc. All those things reduce the load and make it a lot easier.

I totally agree with you.

But I also see so many threads on here from people who seem to resent the work it takes to keep a "village". Threads about how weekends are "family time" and how they're too tired to see their friends or don't want to waste their time off visiting their in-laws or aunt Doris.

If you want that support, you have to put the work in, and lots of people don't seem to want to do that.

A village would make it easier, but with a newborn and a toddler anyone would be tired OP, even with a village they'd still be your children and you'd want them close and they'd need you still. It will get easier

You are absolutely right, but at the same time, living with a whole extended family sounds miserable. Most people want peace and privacy in their own home. So I don't know what the solution is.

We don’t live lives that allow a village any more.

Would you put up with another adult chastising your child? If you left your child with a grandparent, and they decided to pop out and leave the child with their neighbour would that be ok? Would you accept your mother in law’s view on how you should parent? The “village” was never just babysitting on tap and under parental instruction, which is what it is mostly translated to now!

And, honestly, I think a lot of people want a village but they aren’t willing to be the village. How many parents helped out with the children of friends and relatives before having their own kids? How many help actively after having kids?

And, honestly, I think a lot of people want a village but they aren’t willing to be the village

100%. How many threads are there on here from people who are pissed off because Jane asked them to help with the school run, or because Sue wanted them to give Tommy a lift to football?

Some people also have a potential village but ignore it. So many times you see people with an ill child and another who is well enough fir school, but they are unwilling to even ask another parent to help.

I think you are right.

I'm a single mum with one dc and I cope ok. I'm not exhausted and I generally get everything done, but I took a conscious decision when ds was 3, to work on my fitness and strength, which definitely helped.

I doubt I could have coped with two. The logistics would have been a nightmare. And oddly, it's easier not having a partner, I focus on ds and getting everything done. No time for a partner relationship or compromises or discussions.

Parenting and juggling it all is totally exhausting and time consuming, especially with babies and toddlers.
As many have said, there is an enormous difference when you have family and/or domestic help

Elena Bridgers on Instagram introduces some really fascinating concepts about this.

The village in hunter gatherer societies means alloparenting- so living communally and all adults having shared care of the child.
That means any old 'auntie' coming and taking the baby off etc, others disciplining and feeding them.

Also you wouldn't have a toddler and a baby. Birth spacing would be much wider. Some societies practiced infanticide if there were too many babies.

I love my family but I’m glad I don’t live with them. I also wouldn’t want to be a SAHM, I love my career.

I don’t feel exhausted generally but I do have DC that sleep well which helps.

We don't need to track right back to the lives of the tribe though. Go back 50 years and you'd be more likely to live in striking distance of grandparents and actual aunts and uncles. That seemed to work well enough. A bit of space, a bit of support.

The neighbours knew you well enough to hang out of the window and shout, "I"ll tell your Mam!" if you started getting rowdy.

Maybe that was just my childhood? 😁

I don't remember my parents ever having a village, they worked opposite shifts to each other and juggled everything between them. I have far more support than they did plus the advantages of flexible working hours, understanding family friendly employers and a partner who works from home...I still seem to be exhausted though. My children are both in the toddler stage so I think it's just a difficult time.

Standards seem to have become very much higher as being a mother has been "professionalised", so to speak, IMH (not a mum) opinion?

I don't think working and having children is necessarily harder than not workin. Being a full time mum is also tiring but I just think life is tiring. People tend not to want to live with parents or have super close family relationships so why would extended family be around to help raise your kids? I honestly think yes life is tiring depending on your job and family life but I think people seem to find it harder than I think reasonable.

I have a weekly cleaner but that doesn't feel like enough help.

People always talk of villages when they're looking for help/support, not so much when it's time to offer help/support to others.

Honestly? I didn't want a village. I found parenting my own 2 small children a lot less tiring (and tiresome) than I think I would have found it to be an active part of a network of other people and sharing the load by mucking in with their small children in exchange for them mucking in with mine. I think people idealise the idea of 'the village' without really thinking about the fact that you have to give to as well as take from it! Having an energetic and capable partner/husband who doesn't think parenting is woman’s work definitely helps.

Who’d want to live with extended family though? Not me.

I agree with you re having help and also working. I had 2 years off when mine were small and returned for only 2 days pw after that. I was lucky enough that our parents happily provided child care too. So I didn’t need to get babies dressed in the morning or be watching the clock when I was at work to make sure I collected them on time. If mine were ill, I never needed to take time off.

I see younger colleagues now that work ft and have their kids in day care and they really are stressed and knackered.

I often say to mine to think about future childcare and where they live. Stay geographically close to your parents!

Yes I agree with this, MNetters are too scared to answer their front door if someone knocks without prior appointment, many people don't speak to neighbours, go NC with family over minor issues etc

People's expectations have increased too. Previously there was very much a 'make do' type of ethos but you rarely see or come across it these days. Now with social media, it's far too easy to compare your family with that of x, y and z. People also pile stress onto themselves.

As for the village thing it does cut both ways. If it takes a village to care for children then it's the same village that takes care of elderly family too.

Look at your lifestyle and see what you can change. You have a toddler and a newborn so yes with that kind of age gap it will be tiring. If you have anymore kids be mindful of that. Once your newborn sleeps through it will get easier but you are right in the stage of parenting where they demand so much of you physically. They will get older and that will change. Rather than lament what you cannot change, look to what you can. So as a family how could you make your lives easier in the short term? You already have a cleaner, could you get them in more often or for longer? What is it that you are actually struggling with, write it down and the seek to address it.

I agree with the posters who point out that many don’t want to be a village for other people either. I think it was probably different when people lived more communally because the exchange of “favours” probably happened organically. You kept an eye out for other peoples kid and they kept an eye out for yours etc. now we often have to schedule favours or help and people start counting.

I think it was harder to avoid contributing before as people bloody knew you weren’t busy.

I say this as a knackered mum but happy with living my slightly introverted life of not owing anyone. I would have gone literally insane if I had to live near either mine or Dh’s tribe.

Routines falling out of favour don’t help either, if you know your kid has been Gina Forded to nap reliably and sleep through the night, you know you have breaks in the day and a solid evening to yourself.