To think we mums are utterly exhausted as it does take a village

[Namechsnger]

I was listening to a podcast where women were discussing the actual reason why modern day mums are absolutely exhausted cause raising a child was never a one or 2 people job but it was supported by whole extended family, lots of family members used to live together and support each other in raising children, that's what family was about. On top of that women used to stay home and not work which meant focusing solely on home and children, which I think would be easier to do than juggling home, kids and a job.
I am utterly exhausted with 2 children - a toddler and newborn and so are all my friends who have 2 children. People with one seem to be doing okay but still juggling all the plates.
I think this explains the ever slumping fertility rates in the West. Sigh!

I don’t know if I buy this village thing. washing was done by hand, clothes largely sewn by hand or knitted - that stuff takes a lot of time! Many children weren’t taken care of by a village so much as they were booted out the door at 9 and told not to come back until it’s dark.

I was born in 1956, my Mum worked full-time from me being 2 years old and I was with a child minder. My grandparents never helped with childcare.

Nearly all my friends had Mum's who were working full-time, with two working part-time. None had Mum's who did not work.

I come from a tiny village in Lancashire and we were definitely not raised by the village. My Mum would have been horrified to have her child raised by the village - probably would have thought this reflected on her parenting.😀

In my experience of parenting the grandparents expected us to do stuff for them too, while giving no help, so we were kind of crushed in the middle.

We theoretically had a village where we lived, but it was rubbish because getting people not to misbehave around kids is really hard. We were regulars at church but I had the hardest time stopping a weird guy from grabbing my son and trying to kiss him on the lips when DS was under 1 year old. Others then criticised me for not passing him round and being too precious about keeping him in my own hands.

I wonder if the fact that we have to all move away from home to meet someone and find a job is part of it?

Yes lots of maiden aunts cos so many men were killed in wars.
We had a lovely great aunt who had a sweet heart in the First World war who wrote to her but her mother hid the letters and poor great aunt never married lived with her brother all her life as she had been forced into being the village for her mother and sister.
I keep a photo of her in my purse in tribute. Bless her.xxxxxxxxxx

Also there's the expectation;

My Christmas as a child-

See Father Christmas at the local shop one day in December
Advent calendar- pictures take in turn to open a door.
Decorate the tree on December 14th
Christmas Day- presents and dinner

My children's Christmas

Decorate the tree and house 1st December
Visit to Santa
Winter lights visit or panto
A chocolate and sweetie advent calendar each
Christmas activity with ils
Christmas concert
Christmas dinner at school
Christmas jumper day
Carols round the tree
Trip to church
Christmas cards for class mates
Christmas fayre
Xmas eve party
Christmas Day- presents and dinner
Boxing Day see in-laws

Everything is much bigger and parents are much more hands on.

"On top of that women used to stay home and not work which meant focusing solely on home and children".
Very few women were able to stay at home and not work, and I think this applied mainly only to Victorian middle class women.
Also, in those days they did not have all the labour saving devices we take for granted these days.
Women may have had larger families, and it is possible that older children would have helped with younger ones.
All the after school activities that take place now, either did not happen then, or were not as easy to be found, and without a car we would not have been able to go anyway.
School for me ended at 3.45 (or infants at 3.15), so the day was longer. Apart from the first few weeks, we came home by ourselves, so parents did not have to hang around after collecting an infant, to wait for a junior child.
I am retired so I am talking about the 1950s and 1960s. We had no extended family living nearby.
if you go back further, then the women in my family worked very hard, and I think it must have been a real struggle, and this was just to put food on the table.

My parents had my Nanna next door. She helped a lot as both my parents worked. My Nanna worked too when my mum was young, so never SAHM’s in my family. I never wanted to be a SAHM, I didn’t particularly enjoy mat leave. Having young kids is tiring, but for me my career was a bit of an escape from life of being mum.

I have a ‘village’ and I honestly don’t know what I’d do without it.
its also lovely for the kids, they have both grandparents and aunties, uncles and cousins within walking distance to help out. We also return the favour of childcare with the small cousins. It’s really nice.

My DGM lived with her MIL for over 20 years (basically from the day she married), and within 3min walking distance from her DM, 2mins from her DS, another 2mins from DB. Yes she had a village but it also was challenging and everyone was constantly in each other’s lives and she didn’t have much privacy.

You're more fortunate that a lot of women. A DH who does his bit, and a cleaner. Some mothers had none of that, worked FT and paid through the nose for childcare.

My DGM had four kids in 8 years and hand washed cloth nappies. Cooked lunch every day for 10 (MIL, DH, kids and workers) and didn’t have a dishwasher 😭🤯

Where is anyone saying that you should live with extended family?

I have a village, my friends. We met through school and there are many children here whenever they need or want to be.

My best friend drove for an hour to come and collect my children when my car broke down and we had a stupid wait for the AA. Another friend ordered me a dominos when my cooker got condemned and I had nothing for tea. I've dropped off care packages to ill single mothers, babysat, ran down the school to give medicine to my friend's daughter because she was in work and couldn't get out. The amount of mutual running around we do is fine, we don't take advantage, but having people to call when you're struggling who not only understand but are around the corner and ready to help is invaluable to me.

I have no issue with any of them telling my kids off because they do so gently and for their own good. I respect the hell out of them all as parents and am grateful that my kids are surrounded by so many strong and generous role models. We've made the village we needed and it works. I'm a better mother for it, definitely.

I'm finding it suprising all this 'the women worked' I'm originally from a midlands IMining town and am now 63 - - neither of my grandmothers worked from the minute they had kids till they died, although one I confess did my grandads business accounts - my mum also only worked on and off very sporadically and part time and most of my friends had similar set ups - then again housing was cheap as chips up there and for quite posh bits of town too at that time.

This is more the way I was brought up. Although my aunt was also in the picture.

But then again my dad wouldn't have thrown a giddy fit if someone had told one of us kids as so many parents seem to do these days. I still remember my brother whinging that he'd been told off by the old man opposite. My dad's reaction was you must've done something to deserve it. I will ask Mr P and see if you deserve further punishment

People cannot expect help if they not willing to give back. Nor if people are dictated to when you want them to look after your kids

Many of my friends and family members seemingly forgot I exist once they had children so frankly, they can fuck off with their villages.

Another close family member gives such a strict set of rules for interacting with their children that it just sucks out any joy. They don't believe in no, the children aren't naughty but are expressing themselves, have the freedom to make open choices in any setting etc. It just isn't compatible with normal life for the majority. So they want us to give our time basically to babysit and follow instructions. Again, they can fuck straight off.

See my mother, both grandmother's and one great grandmother in our family worked. Mostly full time. Not that unusual. But then again we are a working class family. Maybe different for the middle classes

Yes I totally agree!

So many threads about wanting Christmas to be a closed off affair or not visiting family etc. It makes the support you receive very transactional, I’m very lucky that I have a good village around me and we all help each other because we want to and not because we have to or feel obliged.

When was this era when everyone had this network of willing helpers? My children were born in the 80s and I certainly didn't have it and nor did my friends. Most of us had parents of working age (my parents were working well into my kids' teenage years), so not readily available for regular childcare, and most of us weren't local to the area we had settled in, in any case. Likewise, my parents didn't live locally to where they grew up and didn't live in communities where people looked after other people's children without payment. I think people who have lots of parental/familial/community support must live in areas where nobody ever moves away or fully leaves home. I have to say, I really don't remember many conversations in my friendship group about how knackered we were. I guess we just accepted it was inevitable that parenthood is hard work.

I think that's a pretty huge generalization, there are still hunter gatherer societies and they do have toddlers and babies at the same time.

I'm in my early 60s and I had no grandparent help with childcare. They were too far away to begin with and anyway I'm not sure there would have been much help going. ILs were useless. My parents adored the kids but I don't think they'd really have been up for minding them lots.

Even if we had done, I have "done my time". I will most likely have to work FT until I am 67. I have always worked FT, and reared three children. So when is my time??

And the highest amount of kids with anxiety and other mental health conditions

Missing the point I know but absolutely no-one with school age kids now is called Sue and very few called Jane.
They're likely to be called Lauren, Katie, Kim, Amy.
I do agree with the excessive romanticisation of the idea of the village though and that people don't invest in it anymore. Partly to do with the promotion of individualism, I think. It's beneficial for capitalism to dismantle communities.

I think it's got something to do with massively rising standards in what is expected of mothering too.
When I was a kid in the 80s we were all allowed out to play in the street unsupervised or very lightly supervised from about 4 years old and later say from about seven we could go out on our bikes all day hang around on the estate with our mates or go up the woods.
These days the roads are busier, perceptions of danger are higher and the norm is now to be there watching your kid or taking them to organised activities all the time.

That's all very well if you have the time on your hands to nurture such relationships. If you have to go to work, you're dropping the kids and running, and the childcarer does the afterschool pickups.

I did get involved with PTA to try to make friends, and I did make some, but nobody I could ever have asked to do any of these things. Some of the friendships didn't last but one or two have done, and I'd be comfortable asking for a favour now - only our kids are all grown up now!