To think we mums are utterly exhausted as it does take a village

[Namechsnger]

I was listening to a podcast where women were discussing the actual reason why modern day mums are absolutely exhausted cause raising a child was never a one or 2 people job but it was supported by whole extended family, lots of family members used to live together and support each other in raising children, that's what family was about. On top of that women used to stay home and not work which meant focusing solely on home and children, which I think would be easier to do than juggling home, kids and a job.
I am utterly exhausted with 2 children - a toddler and newborn and so are all my friends who have 2 children. People with one seem to be doing okay but still juggling all the plates.
I think this explains the ever slumping fertility rates in the West. Sigh!

Ah, well, I did that, but then I had to move countries.

Having said that, I’m not sure not having moved countries would have made a difference. My parents are too old to help (as wonderful as they are). My friends all have their own kids and full time jobs – their kids are older than mine, sure, and I helped out with their babies a lot but when mine wad a baby they would have been in the same position I am now and wouldn’t have had the capacity to help. My aunties and uncles are either in the same position as my parents or have their own grandchildren to look after. Who is this mysterious village supposed to be? The women I know all work full time, or basically full time. DD has lots of lovely friends whose mums are fantastic people and we are there for each other in emergencies – but they all work full time so their children are in after school clubs, so there’s no play dates and on a day to day basis they’re as snowed under as I am.

I’ve issue isn’t selfishness, or pickiness about how other people look after your kids, or anything like that. It’s a) our generation had children later so we’re dealing with young kids and ageing parents at the same time, and b) it’s not sustainable to run a household on a single income so both parents have to work.

There is something in this.

However, since we went through the agricultural, then industrial, then digital revolutions, we simply can't pick up all the unpaid work again and "let the man go to work".

We're already disadvantaged enough by the fact that we care more about our offspring than do fathers. Evidenced by the nu.ver of children abandoned by their fathers compared to mothers, the number of women screwed over after divorce.

We have to move forward on an equal footing or not at all. And I fear the wave of meninists will take this sort of theme and want to put us back in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. 🥺

it doesn’t help that people sneer at childcare options as well.
Making you feel like if you love your kids, you wouldn’t go to work full time or send them to nursery, childminders etc.
my mums ‘village’ included paid and unpaid childcare but in UK you have knackered mums who feel they have to ‘be seen’ to entertain their kids 24/7.

I feel the pressure to be around kids and keep them entertained throughout the day especially with crap weather, being stuck at home.

I don't think you can expect a village. The problem is that both parents need to work these days to afford life - and that is very hard!

I was lucky that I am older (60) and had my DCs late in life, mid 40s. I bought a house young and had a good career and was able to be a SAHM once I finally met DH. I worked PT after that, evenings and from home.

I can't imagine how hard it must be to raise a family these days (my DC may find out in due course). We had very little family support, but I was at home so didn't need it. But I did have elderly MIL who could have the babies for an hour or two if I had a hospital appointment or something. I know some people cope amazingly as single parents, or with other difficult scenarios, but it must be hard!!

DH did little tbf as he was working long hours - but was at least there if extra support was needed. He did daytime feeds and changed nappies etc as required. I count myself lucky to have been able to SAH - most people don't have the choice these days.....

The problem is that everyone has more expectations placed upon them than before. Everyone is expected to work for longer. Grandparents who are still working full time are the norm now. Women are not only expected to, but often need to work in order to keep the family afloat - they’re often doing the lion’s share of the domestic duties too.

Children also have more expectations placed upon them in school. It seems like every other day they have to have something like their PE kit, £1 for non-uniform day, donations for the harvest festival etc.

The village of old isn’t really possible these days, and it’s not just because people are selfish and can’t be arsed.

You wouldn’t need a village if the cost of existing wasn’t so ridiculously high. Taxes are extortionate and the government is doing precisely nothing to support young families.

Why would anyone have children these days when you are expected to take on full time work just to pay the bills and also do a full time job raising very young children? And even that doesn’t guarantee you a high quality of living and you live in a permanent state of exhaustion for decades 🤷‍♀️

Times are, and always have been very hard for working people. By working people I mean those of us who have to work in order to get by.
I read somewhere that only the very rich or the benefits class can afford to have children and o think that is very true.
If you have young children and non working parents you are extremely fortunate. My mother was born in the 1940s her siblings were older. They all worked full time all their lives, with the exception of one if them who worked school hours because her dh had to work abroad.
I don’t think it’s fair that some people get free childcare and help because their parents don’t work, but life is very unfair.
If my adult dcs have children, they will either have to work and pay for childcare or not work at all. I will have to work until I am 67. Added to this are elderly parents who, due to working hard all their life don’t get help.
Life was not easy in the past.
Being forced to stay at home due to social expectations wasn’t a pleasure cruise. Women could not progress like they can today. The pressure to stay in bad relationships was enormous.
It wasn’t very long ago that being an unmarried mother was regarded as shameful.
Having a mixed race child would bring lots of criticism.
There wasn’t the help that exists nowadays.
I also reiterate that being cared for by ‘the village’ would not stand today. Far too much opportunity for child abuse, this was rife.
You can still send your DCs out to play, all day everyday, but must modern parents chose not to, and they do that fir a reason.

I grew up in a place where people moved to rather than where families came from so for myself and most of my friends growing, the "village" came from the local community. I think we've lost a sense of that now and people only seem to want a village that only includes extended family.

I read that there's never been a perfect time of parenting. There's always been challenges with whatever era of parenting we've been in. A lot of people seem to think the answer to modern parenting is to go back to a time where woman stayed at home and men went out to work. Of course this works for some people, but you only have to read some of the threads on here to see how burnt out, exhausted and miserable some SAHMs are. A lot of woman in the past stayed at home with a great cost to their own wellbeing and sanity. It certainly isn't the solution for most of us.

I think what a lot of people have said that the expectations on parents now is so intense. I read that even with parents working, they are still spending more time active parenting than previous generations.

It's all this "make memories" and "you'll never get this time back" that guilt trips parents into thinking every spare minute they have should be dedicated to their children at the expense of their own wellbeing. I've seen on here woman being told on here why did they bother having children if they didn't want to spend all their time with them if a mum dares to say she wants a weekend away or speaks about being exhausted and wanting a break. Children are taken to activities 6 days a week, they aren't allowed to go play in the street with friends, sleep training is spoken like it's almost child abuse so parents are up at all hours with children, than up at 5am playing with them. Every meal must be home cooked using organic non processed ingredients, god forbid parents use a jar, pouch or ready meal occasionally to give themselves a break. Weekends should only be family times so parents don't get any time to themselves. Parents are made to feel they should entertain their children constantly and feel guilty if they even want a half hour break for themselves. Parents are still intensively parenting their teenagers as well and giving them no autonomy or freedom or independence.

I don't remember it being this intensive for me growing up. My parents didn't entertain me 24/7. I wasn't taken to activities every day of the week. I took responsibility for my homework myself as well as getting myself ready for school as a teenage. It's all this what I think is making parents exhausted.

Yes too much pressure, via social media, to be perfect.
Elf on the shelf, Christmas Eve boxes, matching pjs. Huge gas guzzling cars ferrying them about everywhere.
My DCs did without material things so that I could spend more time with them. We are very close now.
Children don’t need material crap. They remember times, not material possessions.

I also agree with people not wanting to be part of a village and shutting down relationships over the most minor of things. I remember a thread on here where a mum was complaining that her friend was holding her baby too much when she came to visit. Rather than being told it was nice she had such an involved and interested friend or being advised to just ask for her baby back, this mum was told all sorts of bonkers advice such as putting a time limit on her friend coming round, not letting her friend hold the baby and the general consensus was that the mum should just ditch the friend.

It's no wonder when this is the general thinking that some mums are exhausted and isolated.

I honestly think one of the major reasons people don't have a "village" anymore is because they don't like the idea of other people making decisions about their children.

I don't necessarily buy that people are too busy - I think people don't want to give up control of their kids to anyone else. They prioritise their "little family" or want weekends "just us" - but then wonder they're lonely when the kids have grown, or why the struggle to find any help with anything when they need it.

I have a fairly limited village - by choice.

We live quite far from both sets of parents for different reasons - my mother is just very difficult to be around and my in laws massively favour their daughter and moved thousands of miles to be with her instead.

I work full-time (compressed hours) as does DH - we have some small reciprocal arrangements with other local parents but TBH I have a lot more money than time so I prefer just to pay for childcare than to do reciprocal childcare.

Aren’t you just (somewhat angrily) repeating my own message back to me here? You’ve opted out of the village, which as I said before is fair enough. The OP wouldn’t exist if many weren’t doing the exact same thing.

My original post was highlighting that in my anecdotal experience many (not all, obviously 🙄) people my age have parents who had lots of help but are refusing to pay that forward. In the cases I was referring to, that is simply a fact and your differing experience does not somehow neutralise or invalidate that.

There was a very short period when married women were generally not allowed to work (by their employers).

But you are right prior to this working class women normally worked while raising huge families!!!!

The village concept can definitely make things easier, maybe as much with contemporaries as across the generations. I literally am part of a village where people help each other out and it's made bringing up my daughter much easier - sharing lifts or having someone to look after her when necessary. Mind you, it hasn't really helped that much with my son as he doesn't like to be left with people outside the family.
I also think that these days with everyone so busy, it's harder to keep up the village care. I know I've had to turn down my neighbour a few times when she's asked for help with her kids as I've arranged to go elsewhere with my own. It was probably easier in the days when people were at home a lot more.

That's true of women in white collar jobs, less so factory, shop workers and people in service. Quite often the work transfered to the home - so my grandmother went from working in a dress-making shop to doing piece-work at home (men's silk ties, shockingly low pay).

In my experience ( grandmother now), young parents get more help from their parents than we had. I got no help at all with twins as DM was working, despite being in het 70s. Most of my friends lived some distance from family and had no regular help.
My mother had no family in this country who were in a position to help, she worked nights as a nurse in a casualty department and got home in time to take my sister to school and then try to get a couple of hours sleep with me toddling around.
In contrast my friends are now turning themselves inside out to provide childcare, often driving long distances and staying over, We will soon embark on this ourselves.

My husband’s mum was a blue collar worker and was force to leave when she married so I think it varied.

I have met a lot of people in my community through my dc and am surprised and happy to say we actually have built up a decent support network. For the first few years, I thought that was never going to happen. But it is give and take. It involves getting to know other people’s kids, looking after them, and sometimes getting knee deep in other people’s problems. You don’t keep score, you just give people a dig out and hope it comes back around when you need it. It involves trusting other people and not being too judgemental. And you have to make the effort and cast your net wide. There’s a woman in my area who I got to know when I was out in the park with my dd nearly every day when she was a baby. I used to just say hello to her. She has a granddaughter my dd’s age. Then we got chatting every time we pass. Today she stopped and asked how dd is getting on in school. I said great and she said I’d say she is, love and so are you. I barely know this woman really. But she saw me, struggling around with the buggy every day on my own and she made the effort to be friendly and it made all the difference to me. She’s a part of my support network and I don’t even know her surname. If you want to build up that kind of network, you need to offer support to basically anyone that needs it, and to be friendly and kind then hopefully it will come back to you.

It’s a nice idea but I wouldn’t want any of my wider family raising my children in the way their wider family were involved in their up bringing.
Id rather do it alone than expose my children to someone who doesn’t parent appropriately.

We've done it with minimal family help which has been very hard at times as we both work in busy stressful jobs. No option for me to be a SAHM. We just can't afford it.

We only have one so it has been just about manageable. No way could we have had more. We're full to capacity as it is.

It would be great to have more family help available but it is what it is.