To think we mums are utterly exhausted as it does take a village

[Namechsnger]

I was listening to a podcast where women were discussing the actual reason why modern day mums are absolutely exhausted cause raising a child was never a one or 2 people job but it was supported by whole extended family, lots of family members used to live together and support each other in raising children, that's what family was about. On top of that women used to stay home and not work which meant focusing solely on home and children, which I think would be easier to do than juggling home, kids and a job.
I am utterly exhausted with 2 children - a toddler and newborn and so are all my friends who have 2 children. People with one seem to be doing okay but still juggling all the plates.
I think this explains the ever slumping fertility rates in the West. Sigh!

I’m 60 and I don’t know anyone who was brought up by a “village” as children - a few had grandparents living with them but that was because they needed care rather than to provide support. It may partly be because I grew up in a suburb but when I was a kid being a mother was very isolating - few groups and no parental or family support. In emergencies kids were left with neighbours but this really didn’t feel particularly positive.

It does get easier OP. You are probably at the most exhausting stage of all.

Yes, exactly. Villages work both ways - you can't just take, you have to be willing to step in and provide support for others too, and so many people don't even want to talk to their potential village, let alone help them out.

Completely agree with this. We were away recently, spending time with DH’s family who are from a different country and culture and the time and effort put into relationships and compromise is a different ball game completely to here

I don't know. I come from a culture where families do still live together and support each other and the truth is that many if not most of the women in these setups are miserable. It's noticeable that when women have economic agency, they don't choose to live with their parents in law.

We don't have a village -- no family support locally and no friends who would offer practical support. But I don't feel exhausted. I'm a sahm and had no child-free time until my youngest started pt preschool (just a few months ago). But I feel very supported by DH, who works locally and is able to wfh at short notice, and between us we've muddled through.

Our age gap has also helped - my eldest was in preschool when my younger one was born, so I've mostly spent time focusing on one child at a time rather than juggling two young dc. We've also made decisions which make our life easier - moving to a house which is a 20 min walk to work for DH, a 5 min walk to school, a 15 min walk to preschool, busy city centre area with all amenities within 20 mins walk, all grocery and clothes shopping done online, private school with plenty of extracurriculars on site so I'm not constantly ferrying to after school clubs (though we do activities off site a few times a week), paying for activity holiday camps to keep dc entertained over school holidays. We don't have a cleaner or have babysitters although we could afford it, it's just a personal decision.

I don't feel tired at all and I tend to stay up late until the early hours most nights (it's when I get my admin and OU study done). I have an underactive thyroid which is well controlled by hormones - worth getting blood checks done to rule out any deficiencies.

I'm only in my thirties but we certainly had a village - and it wasn't family (they all lived overseas) but friends and neighbours, as well as paid care.

I remember being picked up by random friends' parents multiple times at school, or going round to my parents' friends houses at weekends to play with their kids because mine had to work.

But my parents also did the same in return - I remember my parents taking me & various friends out to the pool, or to go strawberry picking, or just to the shops because their parents had to work or had appointments etc.

No doubt they had better things to do a lot of the time, but it meant when they needed help, they had it.

You don't need to live with your extended family to have support from them, though, there's a middle ground.

I think it has to be the right village or it makes things harder. PIL around judging you. Parents coming over demanding you do things their way and talking down to you. People who expected to be waited on and for the women to do all the work for all the occasions. Everyone demanding a new mother does things the way they expect her to. But also not all agreeing on what they think she should be doing is so she will inevitably be getting it wrong.
I think modern women want to be respected and having a village full of different personalities around you isn't always going to be beneficial.

I agree (and I'm knackered too). Another thing in the mix though is that child-rearing is much more intensive now. My parents' generation as children were sent out with the other local kids to play after breakfast with a sandwich for lunch and not expected back home until teatime! No adult supervision, not from the age of about three!

All unthinkable now, of course. But I think this huge social change (obviously necessary as a result of a combination of high-profile crimes against children, and a huge increase in cars making roads so much more dangerous), while obviously being beneficial for child safety, has had a real knock-on effect and made parenting more stressful and isolating

The village can also include sexual predators in my experience, not many parents are prepared to tolerate that risk.
It would also include old school punishments potentially, which is an absolute no no - and less of a bond between parents and their children as many are involved. It also allows parents to shift the responsibility of parenthood to others all to easily.

I was kind of raised by the village, and I miss the sense of belonging and safety. I was slapped by older women, shunned for being an individual and wanting to carve out my own identity.

I don’t think today’s parents would tolerate the amount of involvement, the watering down of their own values and safe guarding risks to be honest.

I see it as quite romanticised on here. But the reality is different.

I think it would be better to have more parents being able to work less hours - share the task of raising their brood, and be much more supported in society to raise children without so much pressure.m/money worries.

Everyone wants a village. But do you want to look after your MIL in your home in your turn? Because that's what family oriented cultures do.

There is but often the same issues are present and the support still needs to be mutual to work well

I agree it would be lovely if the people who wanted a village had one but I also agree many people who want a village don't want to build the village.

I used to help my sister with her children and would babysit them often. One day she messaged me saying she would be late as she needed to go shopping I said no problem and asked her to pick up some milk for me while she was at the supermarket, she said no. I never babysat again. To this day she thinks it's very unfair that because I don't have children I have lots of free time and use none of it to babysit her children but she doesn't acknowledge why.

Totally agree with you.

I think a lot of people like the idea of a village and having support you can call on in an emergency, but don't want to be that support themselves.

I can't imagine most people on here happily having random DC joining them on the school run, or being asked to do emergency childcare on a Saturday night!

yep..add in all the inlaw threads on here, objecting to MIL . You can't expect a village on your terms only.

I wonder if it's a mix of no help but also how much we're expected to do now. I have 2 toddlers with no family nearby. However, even when my parents are around, they don't help with the kids much. And I don't remember my grandparents or aunts/uncles helping my parents a lot either.

My mother recently told me not to interact with my 2yo so much. I wasn't quite sure how to take it but I do remember my parents didn't really play with us and we weren't allowed in the house during daylight hours except for lunch/ toilet, unless it was raining.

I happen to live in a place with a load of small kids (it’s an affordable place relative to our area with many family houses) Everyone knows everyone and the kids play outside together in warmer months. We’re always telling each other ‘be the village’. It started as a joke but we really mean it too!

We have a babysitting token system so I go out with my partner sometimes and also go out locally with friends all the time. I look after other people’s children too. When I had a baby everyone brought food/toys for my older kid and offered to take my older kid to play/drop them at nursery. It’s great. I actually didn’t need loads of help but it was so lovely knowing I had people to call on. If my friends/neighbours are going through a hard time, I’ll take food and offer support too. We use older kids for help too (we pay them a little) and our kids get loads of their clothes and toys for free from the bigger kids which we then pass down. Like most in our area, we don’t live near family so we need to stick together!

Agree totally. It took me a while to realise you need to create your own village. So a wonderful childminder, friends in similar life stages that you can help each other out. After school clubs, good nurseries etc. It's by no means the same but it helps and I think of all of these things as the modern day village.

I have 2, 12 and 7 years old. We have no family locally to help but we ask MIL over the summer to come and help and she does. This makes such a huge difference as does our wonderful childminder and friends.

I think the other reason why mums are so exhausted is because even though we've got to the stage in society where women can have a career and children the man's part of this is still in the 1950s for many.

How many threads do we see saying 'I'm returning from maternity leave and can't juggle childcare' and when asked they say 'Djh works long hours' and that's that- he can't contribute at all. So many women work, do housework, childcare and everything. I have a friend whose husband works for the same organisation as me and he has told his family for the 10 years he's been a parent he cannot take carers leave- that is a lie (he gets 3) but they just accept it. Women wouldn't get away with it.

I think the birth rate is declining because women are waking up to the fact that having kids isn't compulsory.

Judging by the constant threads on here, most mothers only want the village when it suits them.

This.
People want everything, a house bigger than they can afford, 2 foreign holidays and weekend breaks, various other things that people never used to spend/waste money on, so 1 wage is never enough now.

Others than are more relaxed about 'things' seem to raise large families without cleaners etc and they just get on work it.

I have done a lot for my family in the sense of being the main carere for my mom with cancer, looking after younger sibling etc but I don't see any reciprocation from my family, moreover family members living overseas. I have supportive PIL who do help us out but they are overseas too and only visit once a year so can't help a lot. I always reach out to people and help them whenever I can. I am ready to put in the work it takes to create a village.

Yup, people quite often get the life they deserve.

My partner’s family are from the third world. It was amazing traveling there and seeing the women collaborating to care for each other and their children. While I was there one of my sister in law’s was on bed rest following the birth of her child (they have 10 days in bed followed by 30 days with no duties round the house). The women in her community provided a stream of warm food and childcare. Many of them ran their own small businesses and could be independent of their husbands if needed. It made me feel sad for myself that I had single handedly cared for my children, struggling with breastfeeding and broken sleep whilst having to run a household, care for a child and return to work. No one cared for me at all during my maternity and as an illustration of this I did the school run with my second child the morning after they were born.