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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we mums are utterly exhausted as it does take a village

273 replies

Namechsnger · 15/12/2024 18:15

I was listening to a podcast where women were discussing the actual reason why modern day mums are absolutely exhausted cause raising a child was never a one or 2 people job but it was supported by whole extended family, lots of family members used to live together and support each other in raising children, that's what family was about. On top of that women used to stay home and not work which meant focusing solely on home and children, which I think would be easier to do than juggling home, kids and a job.
I am utterly exhausted with 2 children - a toddler and newborn and so are all my friends who have 2 children. People with one seem to be doing okay but still juggling all the plates.
I think this explains the ever slumping fertility rates in the West. Sigh!

OP posts:
trivialMorning · 15/12/2024 19:34

ByMerryKoala · 15/12/2024 18:38

We don't need to track right back to the lives of the tribe though. Go back 50 years and you'd be more likely to live in striking distance of grandparents and actual aunts and uncles. That seemed to work well enough. A bit of space, a bit of support.

The neighbours knew you well enough to hang out of the window and shout, "I"ll tell your Mam!" if you started getting rowdy.

Maybe that was just my childhood? 😁

Edited

My parents grew up like this and did DH - they were also all latch key kids from younger than acceptable now.

My parents weren't near family when we were little and didn't have kin help - could have Mum home in early years then p/t round us kids. I think there were also more other SAHM/p/t workers around to trade favours with.

Also according to IL and DP they never had to do quiet so more homework or support work as seemed to be expected by our kids schools either.

DaniMontyRae · 15/12/2024 19:35

Bornnotbourne · 15/12/2024 19:09

My partner’s family are from the third world. It was amazing traveling there and seeing the women collaborating to care for each other and their children. While I was there one of my sister in law’s was on bed rest following the birth of her child (they have 10 days in bed followed by 30 days with no duties round the house). The women in her community provided a stream of warm food and childcare. Many of them ran their own small businesses and could be independent of their husbands if needed. It made me feel sad for myself that I had single handedly cared for my children, struggling with breastfeeding and broken sleep whilst having to run a household, care for a child and return to work. No one cared for me at all during my maternity and as an illustration of this I did the school run with my second child the morning after they were born.

There's only one world, not three.

Why did your partner, the children's father, not care for you? Why wasn't he doing the school run the morning after you gave birth? The village you describe is basically women having to do everything.
Why should domestic responsibilities be solely down to women and why can't men step up and do their fair share? What you are celebrating is misogyny.

lightand · 15/12/2024 19:35

I agree with you op.

I see parents who have little family around them, and suffer a bit for it.

I think it is more the people who have left home for jobs, found partners , have kids, and parents and grandparents are miles away.

PastaAndProse · 15/12/2024 19:36

Wouldn't want my extended family any closer than they are. Wouldn't want any more DC (have an only). I like my life the way it is, it's nothing to do with "the village" 🤷‍♀️

LaPalmaLlama · 15/12/2024 19:36

The reason parenting is exhausting is that we have collectively made it so by shifting our entire culture to helicopter parenting and constant validation ( enabling?) of our dc so that they are such hard work that no one wants to be the village ( see teacher retention crisis). Hasn’t worked out that well given the MH crisis in teens but there you go. I imagine we’ll swing back at some point- either that or we’ll literally die out as no fucker wants to sign up for a 25 year shift of helicoptering anymore🤣

Wakeywakie · 15/12/2024 19:38

AlmostFingDone · 15/12/2024 18:26

We don’t live lives that allow a village any more.

Would you put up with another adult chastising your child? If you left your child with a grandparent, and they decided to pop out and leave the child with their neighbour would that be ok? Would you accept your mother in law’s view on how you should parent? The “village” was never just babysitting on tap and under parental instruction, which is what it is mostly translated to now!

And, honestly, I think a lot of people want a village but they aren’t willing to be the village. How many parents helped out with the children of friends and relatives before having their own kids? How many help actively after having kids?

Absolutely! I didn’t (and still don’t) have kids but in my 20s I used to babysit my friends
toddler at least once a week overnight so she could go out and socialise/date etc. Sometimes it was even 2/3 times a week.

I didn’t have any expectations when doing that as she obviously couldn’t babysit back and I did it for free.

My motivation was simply that was she a childhood friend who had no support from the father, so I felt for her and also I care about my friends kids generally and had a real soft spot for her lovely daughter.

But when another mutual friend (who had also babysat regularly) commented on some aspect of how she was raising her kid, she flew of the handle and cut her child off from everyone (including me) who didn’t take sides against the friend who had said that stuff.

She kind of regretted it when she realised she had alienated most of her babysitters and eventually tried to make amends and bring us back into her child’s life, but I had to keep my distance after that as the whole thing was quite painful since I’d been so close to her child before she abruptly cut me out albeit temporarily.

It has made me a bit wary of people who only want a village when it suits them.

Soonenough · 15/12/2024 19:38

A village does not have to be an interfering one. It is great to know that it can be there as a safety net , if someone is sick, has conflicting schedule , appointments or travel. I was a SAHM as were many of my contemporaries as a family would be OK on one wage . Also not many had careers but jobs that you could leave with no regret . If you did want to pursue a career , childcare wasn't outrageous pricing . Extra curricular activities were not expensive either.

Women got help from their mothers or extended family or even neighbours. Now with women able to choose having kids later in life , many grandmothers are still working themselves to add to pensions. Distance from home for work, school or creche means juggling time to commute .
I think young mothers today have more opportunities than ever before and yet still do the majority of parenting if even only the mental load . I help out with families needing support usually with a disabled child . I see the advantage of outsourcing as much as you can afford . It won't be a constant expense and can really get you over the intense stage of disturbed nights, large household workload .
Working mothers instead of getting support from a village in the traditional sense now need to get it from the country as a whole. More paid maternity leave , flexible working, subsided childcare .

Petrasings · 15/12/2024 19:39

LaPalmaLlama · 15/12/2024 19:36

The reason parenting is exhausting is that we have collectively made it so by shifting our entire culture to helicopter parenting and constant validation ( enabling?) of our dc so that they are such hard work that no one wants to be the village ( see teacher retention crisis). Hasn’t worked out that well given the MH crisis in teens but there you go. I imagine we’ll swing back at some point- either that or we’ll literally die out as no fucker wants to sign up for a 25 year shift of helicoptering anymore🤣

We haven't been helicopter parents, but to dismiss the huge issues of house prices, cost of living and lack of job security which is doing far more harm to independence than invested parents!!

biscuitsandbooks · 15/12/2024 19:39

Lentilweaver · 15/12/2024 19:22

I come from such a culture and most of the women are suicidal living with their bossy inlaws.
Extremely rose tinted view here of multi generational living. Its horrible

Most people aren't talking about multi-generational living when they talk about having a village, though.

Fairyliz · 15/12/2024 19:40

Namechsnger · 15/12/2024 19:07

I have done a lot for my family in the sense of being the main carere for my mom with cancer, looking after younger sibling etc but I don't see any reciprocation from my family, moreover family members living overseas. I have supportive PIL who do help us out but they are overseas too and only visit once a year so can't help a lot. I always reach out to people and help them whenever I can. I am ready to put in the work it takes to create a village.

But have they all emigrated or are you the one who moved away? If you moved you can’t complain they are not around to help.

HattieRat · 15/12/2024 19:41

For my parents generation the retirement age for women was 60 and they generally had their children in their 20s. My pension age is 68, a lot of us will be working full time when/if we become grandparents.

Lentilweaver · 15/12/2024 19:44

biscuitsandbooks · 15/12/2024 19:39

Most people aren't talking about multi-generational living when they talk about having a village, though.

In order to have a village, you have to put in work. Thats how it works in traditional cultures. Your mum helps you with your kids. In return, you don't send her to a home when she gets old.

There is no free lunch and no help flowing only one way. If you want help with childcare, you help with eldercare.

Crikeyalmighty · 15/12/2024 19:45

@LaPalmaLlama there is this too - I see so many mums on here who seem to feel that their kids lives should be constantly full of activities/fun/events/ as well as them often trying to work to pay for all this- as it seems paying for it falls to them in many cases- it's setting kids up for an unrealistic life in the longer time in my opinion - I'm all for having some nice things to do but when it's pretty constant you don't allow kids time to be bored, time to create in their heads and nor do they get a great understanding that life involves budgeting and you can't always do /have everything and others don't really enjoy looking after others children if they are incredibly expectational

LawrenceSMarlowforPresident · 15/12/2024 19:45

I agree with you that it takes a village to raise a child. And that includes people who are not family members. It's a shame that a (generally unfounded) suspicion of others means that the community has shrunk for so many women.

But this part was far from being universally true: On top of that women used to stay home and not work. That was true for a minority of families for a brief period of time historically. Women have always worked.

biscuitsandbooks · 15/12/2024 19:45

Lentilweaver · 15/12/2024 19:44

In order to have a village, you have to put in work. Thats how it works in traditional cultures. Your mum helps you with your kids. In return, you don't send her to a home when she gets old.

There is no free lunch and no help flowing only one way. If you want help with childcare, you help with eldercare.

Yes, I agree - but that doesn't have to involve mum living with you - that's only one of several options.

DH and I have a "village" which includes his elderly dad - we support him and see him daily but he certainly won't be living with us, nor would he want to!

SloppyLasagna · 15/12/2024 19:46

I literally got ZERO help with my 2 DC. My mum died when I was a teen, as did my Aunt and my 2 DGP. I’ve no sisters. My PIL didn’t help.

I also moved countries 4 times with my DC. I tried paid help, but it was so disastrous I couldn’t trust them to look after a sandwich. My DH worked away 50% of the time.

At times it was a fXcking nightmare. Luckily my DC were easy, and portable and I kept our lives basic.

It was what it was. I feel jealous of massive close families. That said, I’m super close to my DC. They are older now, and I made it, but at times it was tough.

SundayDread · 15/12/2024 19:49

I find a lot of people who want to use others but don’t want to help others ever. I’ve distanced myself from several other mothers for this.

You can’t compare the past. We were out all day, few organised activities to go to, bath once a week, didn’t go out that much, parents didn’t entertain you. My parents had a lot of free time at the weekends.

DH grew up with a massive family and they all lived in the same city. He used to want to move back there for ‘support’. However from what I see his parents didn’t have that. They worked split shifts, most of their socialising involved having the kids with them (all his cousins and parents friends kids would be in one room whilst adults partied). His grandma walked him to the summer council scheme but didn’t have him for the day, his relationship with his GPs was him going to see them on his bike and having a snack, not care though. His aunts and uncles had their own kids/jobs.

I think the village thing is blind luck you might live near people with kids the same age who understand a bit of give and take.

Wakeywakie · 15/12/2024 19:50

DaniMontyRae · 15/12/2024 19:35

There's only one world, not three.

Why did your partner, the children's father, not care for you? Why wasn't he doing the school run the morning after you gave birth? The village you describe is basically women having to do everything.
Why should domestic responsibilities be solely down to women and why can't men step up and do their fair share? What you are celebrating is misogyny.

As someone whose family is from a developing nation where there probably is what some would call a “village”, I really agree there’s also a lot of misogyny there (in some countries) which leads to the men not pulling their weight and other women stepping in to fill the gaps to everyone’s detriment apart from the men.

And many of these women work outside the home too btw.

It translates really badly when they come over to the west with their families, because the wives may not have that same network of women , but the men still expect to be hands-off.

My cousin is a doctor and gets frustrated when he sees the lack of support so many (married) women from certain cultures have. Eg, they are more likely to turn up at the hospital when pregnant and unwell without their partner as the husband has left them to it.

This is not the same for all non-western countries btw, some of the men are very attentive but there is an issue in some cultures about expecting women to do all the work.

It can be across any cultures really, I had a childhood friend who is English and would complain about her mum and sister not babysitting and giving her a night off but as I’ve said - why does her partner not take the kids for a night??!

She’s had the kids herself plenty of times and let him go out. In fact until her kids were at school I never once saw her without them.

Why is she expecting more from her mum than the children’s father? There’s been times shes even demanded more from me as well - and I’ve pointedly said she should ask her partner for more help instead.

OctoberOctopus · 15/12/2024 19:52

LaPalmaLlama · 15/12/2024 19:36

The reason parenting is exhausting is that we have collectively made it so by shifting our entire culture to helicopter parenting and constant validation ( enabling?) of our dc so that they are such hard work that no one wants to be the village ( see teacher retention crisis). Hasn’t worked out that well given the MH crisis in teens but there you go. I imagine we’ll swing back at some point- either that or we’ll literally die out as no fucker wants to sign up for a 25 year shift of helicoptering anymore🤣

This. No one is allowed to tell them off, even teachers. Validate them. Accept their belief they are in the wrong body. Strange ideas

KvotheTheBloodless · 15/12/2024 19:53

Women have always worked, unless they were middle or upper class - working class women couldn't afford not to! They would grow and harvest food, care for/milk/butcher livestock, wash clothes, take in ironing, clean/cook for others, work in factories, sew/knit...etc.

You're correct about the rest though - people lived in communities that were far more interlinked, multiple generations lived together, and often women had more children so the older ones helped care for the little ones.

Crikeyalmighty · 15/12/2024 19:55

It kind of reminds me a bit of julia in motherland - always seemed to be wanting favours from others involving her kids( not suprising as her H was never around) but don't think I saw her offering favours to others - she wanted a one sided village -

Housebuyingfamily · 15/12/2024 19:55

RickiRaccoon · 15/12/2024 19:02

I wonder if it's a mix of no help but also how much we're expected to do now. I have 2 toddlers with no family nearby. However, even when my parents are around, they don't help with the kids much. And I don't remember my grandparents or aunts/uncles helping my parents a lot either.

My mother recently told me not to interact with my 2yo so much. I wasn't quite sure how to take it but I do remember my parents didn't really play with us and we weren't allowed in the house during daylight hours except for lunch/ toilet, unless it was raining.

So basically they didn’t want kids. Wonderful 🙄

Pumpkincozynights · 15/12/2024 19:55

I don’t for one minute think that parenting is any harder now. Life is just different.
It makes a huge difference if you have a good support network. That has always been the case.
My DCs are adults and I found life hard with young DCs. I didn’t have a large extended family to hand, my dh was working 3 jobs at one point so virtually everything else was left to me. All siblings and parents worked. All my neighbours worked. Not all family lived close by.
There wasn’t wrap around care at school.
I have to agree with comments about many of today’s parents taking offence at the slightest thing a member of ‘the village’ says or does. You cannot have it both ways. If you don’t want a member of the public telling your child to be quiet, then you cannot expect their help either.
Life was very, very hard for ordinary women in the past, much harder than it is now.
No contraception, no MAP, having to get married, having to stay married to violent, abusive men. No Labour saving devices. Yes your mil might come round and keep you company, you were still expected to be subservient to your husband.
Only the rich could afford to leave.

Luddite26 · 15/12/2024 19:58

ByMerryKoala · 15/12/2024 18:38

We don't need to track right back to the lives of the tribe though. Go back 50 years and you'd be more likely to live in striking distance of grandparents and actual aunts and uncles. That seemed to work well enough. A bit of space, a bit of support.

The neighbours knew you well enough to hang out of the window and shout, "I"ll tell your Mam!" if you started getting rowdy.

Maybe that was just my childhood? 😁

Edited

I'm 52 and my childhood wasn't like that. Neighbours were vile to us because my.mum was a single parent ( husband left her for a work colleague social workers). They'd call her a prostitute and shout where's the father. But we weren't one of those large families with relatives on every corner. Her only sister moved to Australia.
Our experience with a hostile community definitely made us kids stick 2 fingers up to authority. If a neighbour had said anything to us as we got older we would have said fuck off back because of how horrible they were to our mum. But we lived 15 mins from grandparents and we stayed with them a lot.
I think they were jealous of my mum as she was quite posh compared to them. Could decorate a room (wallpaper) in a day do her own garden everything was home made she was a brilliant baker and she worked. Suffered from mental health problems from all the strain of horrible people.
I don't think the community was always very nice it was clichey. I've lived my life with a wall up to keep away from gossips and Spidey people.

LawrenceSMarlowforPresident · 15/12/2024 19:59

LaPalmaLlama · 15/12/2024 19:36

The reason parenting is exhausting is that we have collectively made it so by shifting our entire culture to helicopter parenting and constant validation ( enabling?) of our dc so that they are such hard work that no one wants to be the village ( see teacher retention crisis). Hasn’t worked out that well given the MH crisis in teens but there you go. I imagine we’ll swing back at some point- either that or we’ll literally die out as no fucker wants to sign up for a 25 year shift of helicoptering anymore🤣

This too. Childhood has changed so much in recent decades and not for the better.