Modern grandparenting double standards

[TheCalmQuail]

I'll preface this with yes I know that my DC are my responsibility and I shouldn't expect childcare, but it would be nice if it felt like GPs actually wanted to spend time/get to know DC/help occasionally.

Its come up in a few conversations with other parents recently about how little time their DPs spend with their DC, especially in comparison to when they were younger and at their GPs daily. Myself included, I avoided nursery completely when my DM went back to work because free daily childcare from a relative, and some of my happiest regular memories are spending regular one on one time with my Nana.

I realise GPs are entitled to their own lives, but the lack of help does seem like double standards, when a large majority have seemingly had so much help themselves.

I love my DM dearly but I'm surprised at how little effort she puts in, she relocated to live down the road from us and I barely see her unless she needs me. It often feels like she's an extra toddler as I have to suggest stuff to tempt her to do anything together; I manage the logistics, drive her there etc. She will be there for emergency childcare requests when possible. But I'd love her to be a bit more proactive, if only just to give her and DC more time together, as they adore her. And on the flip side I regularly help her out with her home, tech issues, pet sitting, I've built her a website and saved her thousands on setting up her part time business. I also am always the one to invite her over for meals, it's never reciprocated. I'd love her to nip over and take DC to the park, or for a hot choc once in while, just because she wanted to see him

Similar for PIL, we make a +200 mile round trip every 6-8 weeks to see them. MIL will often very bluntly tell us how knackered we look, but they've not once offered to take DC for an hour or two whilst we're there, or suggested me and DH go for a coffee/have a bit of time as a couple. I don't think they've changed a single nappy in over 3 years. Yet they expect us to schlep a toddler across 4 counties on the regular out of obligation.

I absolutely know this is #notallgrandparents as my DB ILs also relocated nearer to him. They have their GC one day a week and regularly on weekends, they do the majority of school holiday childcare and are still often asking for extra sleepovers and time together with their DGC. Which is all a lot more than I'd ever expect.

I know this will be a marmite subject, but really AIBU? Surely the idea is to pass on the help and generosity you received, to help the next generation?

When I was growing up, the only grandparents I knew very actively involved had a daughter who was a single teenage mum, or were there were issues in the family e.g. mum had mental health problems or drank too much. But otherwise grandparents only provided occasional babysitting.

Your title does though. Modern grandparenting double standards. And you imply that this is standard among your friends.

You could have titled this thread "why don't my children's grandparents show the same interest in their GCs as their own parents did?" but you didn't. You implied that this is a modern grandparent trend, when actually it's the opposite. Grandparents do vastly more childcare than their own parents did.

This is the thing. People used to have kids because it was the done thing, not because they really wanted them. Choosing to be childfree wasn’t a thing for that generation so some of them probably didn’t want kids or regretted them or just didn’t enjoy parenting. Why would they then lumber themselves with that responsibility all over again with grandkids?

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being selfish and self centred and refusing to take on family obligations. Grandparents aren’t obliged to care that their adult children have reproduced. Sure, it’s nice if they do, but the ones who want to travel the world in their retirement and blow all the money on yachts, good on them tbh. Similarly I don’t think anyone should feel obliged to look after their parents in old age. People should make provisions for themselves as much as possible. Childcare (and many other things) is way too expensive, yes, but that’s a policy issue, not a grandparent problem.

I barely saw my grandparents as a kid - on one side, the last living one made it very clear she never wanted a child herself (she had a failed backstreet abortion and told my parent this when they were about 10) so no way was she ever going to be a grandmother. She was a horrendous woman and an abusive parent to my father, but on a level I can sympathise with her being lumbered with a kid she never wanted. I grew up knowing what she was like so have always accepted that people exist who just don’t want kids and aren’t interested in them. She’s a very extreme example for sure but I can’t say it ever upset me or made me feel like she or I was missing out.

When do they actually get to be free?

I think this comment is representative to some extent of a generational change that happened, maybe with the post war generation?

Not totally of course, there are still a good number of people who see themselves as having important obligations to family.

But at the same time, I think the idea that we have some entitlement to be "free" and live our lives having fun for ourselves without obligation has become much more common. This was alien to most working class or even middle class people a few generations ago. You worked until you couldn't, be it at a job or family obligations of one kind of another. Then your family cared for you.

I do sometimes wonder if those who don't see themselves as having an obligation to support their grown kids might find their kids likewise don't see themselves as having much obligation to aged parents when the time comes. We learn these values from our family a lot of the time after all.

In the past the grandparents I know who did childcare did it because their adult children could not afford childcare - there were no childcare vouchers. It was a case of giving essential help, rather than having fun.

I think it was more complex than that. In my day it was extremely rare to have a grandmother that had ever worked and men (here) retired at 60yo (and it may have even been 55yo if public service, can’t quite recall). Housing was cheap versus wage so they had paid their house off when the family was relatively young. So basically you had two ‘young’ish’ bored people with a lot of time on their hands and grandchildren helped them in this regard. There was also no formal childcare whatsoever when I was young or going through school. None. It was uncommon for women to work and if they did the only option was informal babysitting arrangements with a stay at home mum next door happy for some cash, or grandparents in walking distance, but it wasn’t generally needed for work purposes as one average wage generally paid off a house in 10-15 years in my parents generation so most women stayed home.

I spent a lot of time with my grandparents as a child, but none of it was because my parents needed us to, but it gave some bored 60yo’s something to do. So mum got to do grocery shopping in peace, get hair done etc, or just some housework.

There is a big difference between genuinely bored, healthy, 60yo’s with no job versus todays 70yo’s working 5 days, and trying to fit in shopping, medical appointments, housework, admin and then juggle a grandchild on top because the parents ‘need a break’.

Edited to add my grandfather also found it joyful as he had virtually nothing to do with his own kids when they were young, as was common in that time, so in a way like a first parenthood but where you can hand them back😁. That’s also very different to today’s grandparents where men were very hands on with their own children.

Would your mum look after your kids if you asked her? You do seem to do all the giving and she does all the taking.

My employer had a voluntary redundancy scheme during Covid and I and two other women in our early sixties took early retirement and we all provide regular childcare to our grandchildren.

Maybe if you stopped the long commute to your PILs, eventually they would come to you instead? If they don't, they really aren't particularly nice grandparents.

My Nanna had six children & a lot of Grandchildren! She still worked well into her 70’s! She always stood her ground and said she wouldnt be a free babysitter as there would always be someone disappointed as there was a lot of grandchildren! She offered emergency care and looking after siblings if babies being born.

My Mum was also still working FT when I had mine, has never really offered (we also don’t live nearby) My Dad did help when chicken pox hit the house but he works shifts so came up to stay for a couple of days.

It would be nice to have saved a little on the very expensive child care bill - but it was our choice to have children. My sister is about to have her first and was quite upset when my Mum reminded her that she wasn’t a free babysitter.

I'm feeling very lucky reading this thread. When our children were in the pre-school phase, my own parents and my in-laws used to visit us in alternate weeks to spend a day looking after the children, and saved us a fortune in childcare. We were so grateful as both sets of grandparents lived 2-3 hours away.

Now the children are in school, they go to stay with my parents a couple of times a year for a few days. Everyone involved seems to look forward to it, and I know we appreciate the break (though in reality it's usually an opportunity to do more hours at work!).

I have different values from my parents so preferred to pay for childcare to reduce conflict over parenting styles. DC aren't super close to them but they will independently go and visit for dinner etc and everyone is comfortable with the relationship/level of contact. PIL are much more hands on and help loads with all their GC but I feel that their kids (incl DH) take them for granted, for example getting annoyed if they can't make a regular pickup even with plenty of notice, as though they should turn down plans to be free childcare, which I disagree with.

IMO GP have done their job and raised their kids, they should be able to enjoy their good health and lifestyle - they can do that and have a relationship with DGC. I don't think anyone should expect them to provide free childcare, it's optional surely but doesn't mean they don't still love them

Grandparents have done their bit as parents and if they can, go off and do their own thing. Don't blame them, they've earned it.

Last thing I want to do when I get to retirement is child minding.

My parents were still working full time until my dc were mid teens, so no they didn't do much child care, a few times over an entire childhood, in laws didn't have them once (also working full time) neither lived close.

My dc don't live near me and I work so have no intention of providing childcare. And I'll add my grandparents didn't provide childcare, my mum stayed home until we were all at school as did I for my children.

I think when most talk about grandparents they mean the grandmother. The working mums of the last generation are trying to have some time and have a broader outlook than wanting a commitment to child care. It's good isn't it that your parents have a good life, you won't have an obligation to provide free child care for your grandchildren and that your parents regard you as independent and managing your own life. If you want some occasional child care you might need to ask for this as they need to book it in .

My mum looked after my children when I needed her to. Which was every week and often every day during school hols etc. As a single parent I was very grateful to her. But my mum never really worked, apart from a brief stint as a cleaner when I was in my teens. So I don't think she was as knackered as many grandparents are now, many who worked full time right up until retirement.

I'm should add based on my dc's intentions I will not be even close to retiring when my dc have children, nor my dsd, all are in long term committed relationships and plan children in their late 20's, one already married. Retirement age is now old whereas it was 60 years ago and neither of my grandmothers had jobs before that anyway. My grandmother was 57 when I was born, my mum was only 49 when my DD's was born, this is quite different to many grandmothers who are well into 70's when the dgc arrive, past the age where it's even feasible to provide regular care

I loved my granny but she didn't do childcare. I visited on a Friday and weekends generally.

My parents and inlaws are fab with childcare and supportive of us and our toddler. Inlaws live a mile away and parents live 20mins away. They all see toddler at least once a week. I'm super grateful and said toddler loves it and lots of times it's a fight to get him to leave my parents house.

It varies so much depending on family circumstances, age of GPs, working status etc. I know people who have loads of free childcare, sleepovers, even gps taking kids on holiday. I also know people who had zero support! My DM retired at 65 with 9 GC aged between 18 and 6 so did only babysitting for nights out. My DC are her youngest GC & the novelty had definitely worn off by them. I did used to envy my friends with hands on GPs!
I would love to be more of a help with my own GC should we be lucky enough to have them but I won’t retire before 67 and my DH is disabled & uses a wheelchair so sadly it’s probably unrealistic that we would be able to.

was your Nanna running a company or working part-time when she looked after you? Did your mum have you when she was young? I don't think you are comparing like for like.

Yup! My parents are too busy holidaying 🤣

@TheCalmQuail you've latched on to one sentence in my post and missed the meaning behind the rest if it. Not all grandparents want to do childcare whether they received help or not. I actively give my mil opportunities to spend time with the kids, sometimes she takes me up on it and at other times she doesn't. You could speak to your mum instead of feeling annoyed or resentful. Lots of posters have illustrated why not all grandparents want to do childcare and I've just explained why I don't want to do it regularly when I'm older.

There are 2 sides to this .... I am a grandma and always help when asked if I am available and I did some regular child care when they were smaller. I still pick a couple of them up from school one day a week.

But it seems that you are asking for your parents to be more proactive and this is the bit you might think further about. I am always happy to help, but hold back from putting myself forward as I do not want to be seen as interfering in their lives or failing to respect their autonomy. They know I am always happy to help if I can and I leave it to them to ask.

Being a MIL is a bit of a tightrope to walk .... reading the posts on this site they seem destined to be wrong whatever they do! 😁
Perhaps you should ask your parents more? ... take the lead in stating what you would like.

It is a bit disturbing that you are beginning to keep a tally of what you do for your mum against what she does for you. This approach is likely to build up resentments which will not help.

Many women of my age have worked full time, lived too far from parents to have regular help with child care and now they are retired want to have a bit of time to do the things they want to do before age/illness prevents them getting out and being active. Caring for grandchildren often becomes the job of the grandmother, I find. The grandfather still gets on with his hobbies.
And caring for young children is tiring, more so as we get older.
So, I can see why many grandparents just don't want to do it

Oh good, another thread full of ageism and sweeping generalisations based on a few anecdotal experiences.

I was born in the early 1960s. My grandparents provided no childcare at all because we lived a long way from them most of the time. Both sets did more for my cousins who lived very near them. My own parents provided next to no childcare for us (a bit more for my sibling, at their request, but just odd days in school holidays), again because we lived a very long way apart. It's obviously lovely when children grow up seeing a great deal of their grandparents but it's far from a universal experience. Nothing to do with one group of people born between certain years being selfish. There was nothing in the water making Baby Boomers selfish. Some people are selfish, self-centred and heedless, some people aren't.

Grandparent care will probably become less uncommon now so many people have children at far older ages than they used to. Also, retirement ages are higher and early retirement an unrealistic option for most people. You need a lot of energy and reasonably good health to look after a baby or toddler. With the best will in the world most people in their 60s and 70s are going to find it knackering. People in their 80s aren't even going to attempt it.

I spent time with my grandparents but they were older back then - and they could both take me to work with them in the 80s.

My parents had my older boys quite often but they were both retired.

I try and have my 2 granddaughters every saturday for a few hours but I still work full time (i'm 47) and have 3 kids still living at home (25, 20 & 15), I simply don't have enough time to go around

So you loved spending regular time with you nan, but how much childcare did your grandfather do, or did he just get free credit for the labour she did, as is the usual case? Why do you only expect your MiL to offer to babysit and not your FiL? (Also why would either change nappies?!)
Let's be real, it's women expected to do this, not men, and yes, maybe women are starting to think of themselves a little more, just like men do.