To stipulate minimum number of nights at home for DD?

[teenmumstress24]

DD turned 18 a few months ago. Her 18th birthday coincided with her meeting a new boyfriend who she is inseparable from. She spends around 1-3 nights per fortnight at home, and that's only to sleep / occasionally grab food or a shower. She doesn't converse with anyone (unless to ask for lifts or to borrow cash), and she certainly doesn't do any housework. Since this time there have been numerous issues and arguments; mostly around the following themes:

• constant requests for lifts from me or partner (although this has declined since her boyfriend passed his driving test a few weeks ago as he's seemingly the taxi now)
• never doing any housework
• never being at home long enough to converse with anyone and all her interactions being requests for something
• letting me and her little sister down after agreeing to do something with us and then dropping us in favour of the boyfriend (little sister is only 3 so doesn't understand and gets very upset about her big sister not being there)
• more recently me and my partner (her step dad) we're both told to "fuck off" when we were unable to facilitate a lift whilst juggling bedtime and household tasks between us after work one evening (she later apologised for this; but it's left a very sour taste)
• boyfriend got involved in disagreement following the above incident, and whilst I was the on the phone to her during a heated discussion about that, I was apparently on loudspeaker as I could hear the boyfriend chirping up "just hang up on her" (to my daughter about me)

I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't. All I get from her is, "it's normal for me to want to be at his house more often he's a new boyfriend". However, she makes time for her dad, her dad's side of the family, my sister (her aunt who's she close to), her friends, and her boyfriend. The only person she lets down and seems to not want to be around is me.

She pays no board (she's at college and works part time earning only about £70-100 a week so I've never taken any money off her). I pay for her phone contract. She doesn't contribute to the food shop here but does buy her own takeaways etc . Her only regular bill is a gym membership.

I've suggested to her since she appears to not live here anymore that she moves out and pays her boyfriends mum board? The response was "I don't want to move out". But 1-3 nights here a fortnight on average would suggest she pretty much has moved out. She has the largest room in the house and it's just wasted space, it's never occupied.

My AIBU is, would I be unreasonable to stipulate that if she wants to continue to live here that I put in place the following rules:

1- she actually occupies her room more regularly than 1-3 times a fortnight? So set a minimum number.
2- she pulls her weight with household tasks and until I see her doing so on a regular basis without any prompting or nagging, I will charge her board. I will stop charging board once she pulls her weight regularly.

Does this sound reasonable? My head is a total mess with it all, I'm struggling to disentangle the emotion from the practical side, so it may come across as garbled. I'm not a good place with it all tbh as I feel so lost and as though she just dislikes me for some reason 😔

Any help appreciated.

Agree with this. Exactly what my parents did when I was around this age.
Ultimately, I was in my own flat within six months, but I appreciate it's a different game almost 20 years later.

Are you doing her laundry? I'd stop that too. You're not a hotel

Perhaps invite the boyfriend over too. Why can't they hang out at yours?

All the people saying this is normal - i don't think it is at all, i had a boyfriend at this age and no way was i sleeping nights at his 10 nights in 14! No one i knew was. Is the boyfriend older? If he's a bit controlling its a red flag but there's not a lot you can do sadly.

I would calmly sit her down and explain to her that family relationships go two ways and she's currently not treating you well. Explain you'll be swapping her room over as its not practical wasting the space.

Cut off anything you do do for her and stop chasing her for attention. Make sure if you are offering to spend time with her that its age appropriate - don't expect loads of days out with toddler half sibling. Its not reasonable to expect her to be interested in a half sibling she's old enough to parent. Invite she and the boyfriend over together eg for sunday lunch.

I’m sorry you’re feeling so sad about this. I can totally imagine the struggle between trying to encourage her to want to be at home and allowing her the freedom she’s just discovered.

It sounds like you’ve taken it very personally but the way I see it is that you’ve done a great job in raising an independent young girl. She’s confident to go out in the world and start to carve her own life. She’ll come back to you. She’s just enjoying her new life and the excitement of this new boyfriend. She’s feeling all grown up and enjoying it.

Maybe you could include the boyfriend in some plans? Could he come for a family dinner/take away may be less formal. Would you be happy for him to stay over at your house once a week or something? I know you’re hurt by the ‘f off’ comment and feeling pushed away but she won’t want to spend time at home if she’s being constantly “nagged” (that’s how she’ll see it). Try to find the ‘fun Mum’ inside. Be interested in her life and ask her questions. Just let her know you miss her and you’ll always be there for her if she needs you. Hopefully Christmas time will help cement the love between you and you’ll find that closeness again. Good luck xx

I am clearly from another time and living on another planet. there's absolutely no way in hell I would have behaved like this living at home aged 18 whilst doing my a levels. my God. the responses you've had. there is nothing normal about her behaviour. I now dread my little ones getting to this age because standards and expectations have obviously changed a lot from what I thought was the norm. if I had behaved like this I would have been thrown out of the house. she should only be staying at her boyfriends on the weekend for one night at a time then she needs to come home and study, work or do something else more productive with her time. her attitude and treatment of you sounds appalling. the fu*k off would have been grounds in my household for me to be told if the relationship continued I'd be out of the house. and I would have been banned from seeing him again. doesn't matter if she's 18. your house, your rules. from the responses it sounds like I should be filing an abuse claim against my parents for how strict they were with me! sorry you are having a difficult time. for what it's worth, I think you are being way too soft and it would be understandable to tell her she stays at home 90% of the time or she moves out.

She’s an adult. I really don’t see the problem.

OP the brain does not fully form until you are 25. Everyone saying she's an adult is simply nodding to a legality.

She is flexing and pushing boundaries but she is an adolescent and still studying so I'd give her ground rules about the week and give her freedom at the weekend.

Set expectations/rewards about the academic outcomes and make sure her father is on board.

Also I'm not sure I'd want to hang round a young child at that age to be honest so I kind of get her absenteed herself a lot. Is there an option for her to move in with her dad if he is in agreement with you?

She's growing up and growing away. That is what happens.

I am shocked her behaviour is considered normal. I had a boyfriend at her age and I definitely did not behave like that. I did all the housework. The ironing, the gardening, the window cleaning, the shopping. I took the bus. I spent every night at home. He stayed over occasionally. I knew nobody who practically moved out while doing A levels. I wish my mother was a caring as the OP. She gave me a bill for what she spent on me after my 16th birthday. Bill presented the day I left school.
However, since things are as they are, I’d say, If she ever tells you to F off again, she need not come home. You are a home, not a hotel, so she cleans the bathroom when she has had a shower , cleans her room, does her dishes and is responsible for her laundry. If she wants to be an adult, she can take on some of those responsibilities, too. She pays for her phone, if she is working. It’s not expensive..mine is £8 per month..but it’s a step in her bid for independence.
Lifts if it’s convenient. No money till she shows willing to be a reasonable person round the house.
Being with a sister is a choice. You can’t force a relationship there. The age difference is too great so she has to want it. I have kids with a 10year and 15 yr difference and same father and they aren’t close. I certainly couldn’t get my 18 year old to go somewhere for the 3 yr old. Play in the snow, build a snowman, sledge, yes, but that was it. Mine went out at weekends mostly. Occasionally during the week but always came home, even weekends. They weren’t hot on chores but then, I never asked because I was a slave at that age and overreacted the other way for mine. There’s a happy medium.

She Should be home studying during the week and boyfriending at weekends but it seems that ship has sailed. It’s hard to shorten the rope once it’s been let out.
Apart from that, I’d chill about the rest. For my own sanity.

Unfortunately, the law says they are adult at 18 but there is no switch on that day to actually make them adult. They will play the adult card, though it seems even more so now than I have ever known. Having said that, if she pushes too far, she knows where the door is. Your job is to teach them to fly the nest. She’s being a bit premature but you have to start to let it go. Relationships cannot be forced. She has, unfairly, relegated you. When she does grow up, she will come back for a closer relationship if you ease up on her now. Or when the bf crashes and burns.

I do think UABU to consider charging board, as you say, she’s rarely there and also as is at college? If you are continuing to receive child benefit for her.
As for contributing to chores etc I’d say again not reasonable if she’s not there but if she comes to use shower etc she absolutely should leave it as she finds it.
Adjustments to your relationship as parent to a child and as parent to a young adult are hard to navigate (I have a 17 year
old) but doing what they see as nagging really pushes the buttons so I’d say, try a bit of talking adult to adult when she is there and most important listen - her saying she doesn’t want to move out sounds like she’d not ready to fly the nest so do be careful of pushing her to. X

Hi there, I'm sorry I'm late to the discussion. I just want to say you sound like exhausted and at the end of your tether. It's OK to be emotional and upset . You are her mum, you love her and what the best for her and you certainly don't feel appreciated.
First I would move her to a smaller room. Tell her when she has agreed to be home for dinner and she doesn’t turn up that you feel hurt and disrepected. Point out to her that their is no point in you paying the phone bill when she not using the phone to keep you informed. Ask her to start using her phone to keep you updated or she pays herself.
Also as you don't know when she is or isn't home best she does her own laundry.
Finally she needs to clean the bathroom after she uses it. Start there and see how it goes. Sending you much love - teenagers are tricky x

Relationships have soured naturally conversations and interactions will be limited

I wouldn’t expect any housework

your DD is being manipulative putting u on loud speaker bet she’s telling her BF all sorts to paint you in a bad light
him shouting hang up could be him sick of hearing about the situation and some arguments just go round in circles
hanging up is the same as walking away from an argument

lifts I would stop

tbh does sound as though you need to cut the apron strings

but what your suggesting won’t improve things

Her behaviour it typical of an 18 year old. Please don't push her out by saying it's fine if she moves out. It's her home at the end of the day & whether she spends time there or not it's where she obviously feels safe & wants to be when she's not at her BFs. Sit her down & explain you understand that she wants to spend her time with her BF however, she needs to respect you & her home & chip in with the household chores. even if it's just cleaning the bathroom after she's used it or washing up after a meal. Let her know you miss her & so does her younger sibling & ask if you can arrange time, maybe once a week where you all do something together. even if it's for an hour before she goes to see her BF. She's not really earning enough to pay board yet & sounds like she pays most of her own socialising expenses herself so I'd not be pushing for her to pay you anything.

As far as her BF telling her to hang up on you, he maybe was trying to discourage her from arguing with you & thought it best to end the call so it didn't escalate. Don't assume he was telling her to disrespect you. I'm sure once the novelty of having a new BF wears off she'll start coming home more & will appreciate you & her home more as she matures.

This age is tough and difficult as parents to adjust to the new normal of our children becoming young adults and having their own lives. I have a 19 and soon to be 17yo, both just embarking on their first serious relationships.
My daughter is the elder one and when she first started seeing her boyfriend she was hardly home and always staying over at his house yet wouldn’t even bring him home for us to meet! They’ve split up now tho so she’s home all the time aside from seeing her friends.
She is doing an apprenticeship so earning so she does pay board (£100 a month) we have many arguments over her lack of helping out round the house, this weekend gone she lay on her bed both days only getting up to go out for food with her friend meanwhile I was working all weekend yet rushing round cleaning up etc before my shifts.
Son is still 16 and in education with a part time job so he pays nothing, he is more helpful round the house and with walking the dog. He has just started staying over the odd night at his girlfriends and she spends a lot of time here too, at this stage there’s no issues as he has freedom but we still see him.
The more you go on at your daughter the further away you will push her, it’s hard work but try and take a step back and hope she comes back to you.

I feel like there's a difference between an 18 year old who's still in secondary schooling and has final exams coming up, and an 18 year old who's left school and doing uni / full-time work / apprenticeship / etc. On school nights, she should (ideally!) be at home completing her homework and sleeping in her own bed, not gallivanting around goodness knows where and using your house as a crash pad.

If I'd behaved like that in my final year of school, my parents would have been beside themselves with worry and (quite rightly) read me the riot act.

I actually think the boyfriend is a red herring. If the daughter was (for example) spending 11 out of 14 nights volunteering at a food bank at the local church and then sleeping overnight in the spare room at the rectory, I'm sure everyone would say that was unbalanced to the point of being unhealthy, and that she was quite possibly jeopardising her future (no matter how worthy her intentions were, and no matter how much she loved volunteering). She shouldn't get a free pass for her actions simply because "she's in love".

This is my longwinded way of saying to the OP that I don't blame her at all for feeling how she does!

Couldn't agree more - my parents would have gone nuclear way before this stage, and I would too, with DS1, who is the same age as the OP's daughter, he's in his first year at uni.

shes 18…. She’s an adult, if she wants to stay out, let her… You can not stipulate to another adult that they have to be at your house a certain amount of days/nights..
BUT… you change bedrooms around… she no longer needs the largest room and personally I would be putting the youngest DC in there, youngest DC will have toys that take up room over the next few years.. be that dolls houses or road tracks/lego sets etc….. so I would be telling her that the rooms are moving round after Christmas, and then just doing it - it is ridiculous her having the largest room whether she was there full time or not!
ALSO if she wants to be treated as an adult then she needs to start acting like one - she’s working and needs to pay her own phone contract…. Unless this was a Christmas or birthday present then you need to cancel payment coming out of your account and tell her she’s responsible for her own bills now.
I wouldn’t charge her rent or for food as she’s never there anyway, and it’s up to the boyfriends parents whether they charge her.
STOP arguing with her - if she comes home make it as pleasant as possible … if you can’t do lifts simply say so, say no sorry we are busy doing XYZ …. (Oh I wish I could but it’s DC’s bedtime sorry!)
Take a deep breath and enjoy your youngest child, let the older one find her own way now, if you don’t argue and push her then she’ll come back to you at some point… it’s natural to butt heads with the parent that you lived with…
As for the boyfriend he sounds like a dick… I would refuse to argue over the phone and just keep repeating ‘I’m not arguing with you’
good luck

Sorry just read some of your updates.
I think next time she comes home for a shower or with a bag of washing you need to oliteoy and calmly tell her that you are happy for her to use the shower but there is an expectation that she cleans after after herself. Also that you are happy to show her how the washing machine works but she needs to wash it and stay there long enough to get it out and dry it etc!
I wouldn’t move her out into a smaller room because she’s hardly there, BUT I’d be moving her into the small room regardless because an adult doesn’t need a huge room, whereas the youngest does!!
One more piece of attitude directed at you would have me cancelling the fire act debit for her phone and texting her to say that now that she is an adult, she needs to pay for her own phone bill and that you will not be paying it any longer due to lack of respect for you and leaving the house in a mess whenever she visits

I’m so sorry OP. You clearly feel so hurt.

Its very difficult negotiating boundaries at that age, but I don’t think rules about chores and times a week she must be in will have the effect you want.

You mention she has the largest room, but I’m not convinced that’s really your issue. If it were you could have a neutral discussion about moving room occupants around, but even that might backfire.

She doesn’t want to move out completely. Take that as a positive. It’s good she’s in contact with her father and your sister. Perhaps if you are able to keep it light for a bit, things might improve? I get that’s a big ask when so upset.

Good luck.

So many truly nasty posts.
Just awful.
OP, you sound like a very caring worried mum.
I am so glad that you have had a good chat with her.
Hoping things continue going well.
Be kind to yourself, you sound as if you are very very hard on yourself.
Take care, this parenting lark can be so hard!

I don't know OP. I'm sorry you're feeling pushed out but from what you said, she's in education, working part time, spending time with family, albeit on her dad's side. That's pretty full on before adding in a boyfriend. Maybe she isn't meaning to cancel as such but just decides to prioritise herself? And at 18, hanging out with a 3 year old really isn't always particularly fun. Cute for an afternoon maybe but not for much longer. I'd maybe suggest that lifts get arranged in advance and if you or your partner can't do it, she has to accept it and pay for a taxi rather than charge her rent.

@Oodydoody

I was truly astounded - and very upset - to read many of the comments, even by Mumsnet standards, it took me by surprise. I'm amazed that some of the vitriol thrown at me was allowed to stand on this thread, in particular:

"Jesus Christ, I wonder why your daughter stays out a lot..."

"She probably found you needy and overemotional and the toddler annoying before, but now she doesn’t have to"

"You’re not doing much parenting if she is allowed to stay with a boyfriend practically full time. Good luck with your new second family - maybe you’ll do a better job next time around."

I console myself with the thought that, so many people are clearly so desperately unhappy with their lives that they need to tear into a stranger online with a level of unpleasantness that I thankfully do not encounter at all in real life. These comments say precisely zero about me, and everything about the poster behind them. That's a fact. And that's all I need to keep in my mind.

As an aside - I actually shared some of this thread with my daughter to help her understand my perspective. Not all of it obviously, as it's very long! She commented in particular on that last comment I've quoted above and said "mum why do you pay any attention to most of that? It's just idiots filling your head with rubbish. We both know you're a good mum- that's all that matters". For that to be the perspective of my 18 year old daughter, well, what can I say. I simply beam with pride, and that's better than tears of sadness isn't it. We will get there.

Over and out 💖

Oh I meant to add - after our heart to heart she is seemingly transformed! (For now at least, but I'll take it 😂). She has decided to spend only 2 nights this week with the boyfriend and the rest here. This evening she has one of her lovely friends over and they're doing coursework in her room. Maybe - just maybe 🤞🏻 - something has got through.

To the posters who saw beyond all the upset and just saw a mum who just loves and cares and deeply and feels lost without my little girl - i thank you. That's who I am, essentially and that's where my post came from. Monday was a truly awful day and I'd hit rock bottom with it all (again, previous trauma around my own mum plays a role in this, and a trauma response isn't always rational).

@DearDenimEagle - your post touched me. When you said "I wish my mum was as loving / caring as you" and said she asked for money back that she'd spent on you for your birthday (?!)- that truly saddened me, I'm so sorry. I lost my mum as a child in quite traumatic circumstances (much of which I witnessed as a young child), and so I know the pain of growing up without a mum. I know this is different to what you describe, but nonetheless your comment touched me and I had to acknowledge it 💖

OP I’m really not why you keep posting, if the responses you have received caused you such great distress and you keep fixating on it. I am surprised posters think you have received a hard time on here, considering how aggressively rude you’ve been since page 1 of the thread. They must not have been reading all the posts from the start. Many people spent time responding to you with thoughtful and insightful perspectives, but you either ignored or disregarded this, or responded nastily to those who didn’t confirm your thoughts. The responses you’ve received are actually in response to YOUR rudeness. As expected though, you won’t take any responsibility for your part in this dynamic either. I consider myself a fairly level-headed poster and I certainly don’t troll or post unkind remarks, but I’ve been taken aback by your attitude and stubbornness. It concerns me that you genuinely don’t seem able to see your role in creating dramatic and unpleasant dynamics - either with your daughter or on here. And yes, your posts absolutely provide an insight into your thought processes and pattern of relating to others.

I am glad things are temporarily improved with your daughter but I stand by all my previous posts and encourage you to seek trauma-based therapy as I do think there’s a lot of unprocessed ‘stuff’ at play here. Over and out!

@Plastictrees
I am equally taken aback that you continue to post on the thread after I've repeatedly asked you not to becuase I am finding your input very unhelpful. There are many helpful posters on here, you are not one of them and I've requested that you respect that, but you are seemingly unable to. As a psychologist, that's a worrying pattern.

You do not need to advise me around trauma based therapy, thank you - you have no idea what therapy I have and haven't already engaged with; and what future plans are in place. And frankly, that isn't your concern.

Let me ask again - Please do not repeatedly tell me what to post / when to post / how to engage with my own thread. I do not wish to engage with you.