To think that *Some men steal the joy

[Vodkaandpepsimax]

Out of life?

I see it around me, with friend’s husbands and then often have it at home with mine and also grew up with a dad who veered between super fun, very imaginative and funny to very grumpy…It would feel like a lot revolved around his mood, whereas mum stayed pretty constant (or pretended to be at least)
Yesterday, trying to get all christmassy (I enjoy it all and especially for dd, 6’s sake) went to a christmas event, Dh silent in the car, me singing along awkwardly with dd to a Mr Tumble xmas cd. It was very busy when we arrived, lots of time to park, yes annoying, but dh so moody about it, I offer to drive/park, he snaps back. Complains about queues for the hot chocolate…just takes the joy out of the experience. I’ve booked for just dd and I to go to see The Nutcracker as I know it will be a much nicer, special experience just us, but obviously need to do things as a family.
Anyone else in this situation

We also have to own our choices. My dudes, if you don't want to listen to Mr Tumble in the car, wait in a queue to see Santa, or take your kid to innumerable activities you'll probably be bored shitless by, and you can't manage any vicarious joy through their enjoyment, then it would be the wiser choice not to have kids. I do think there are a LOT of men out there who probably would have been quite happy not to have children, and probably should have owned that rather than just blindly following the life script and making everyone else around them miserable while they're at it.

^ yes. I'm married to someone who absolutely shouldn't have had kids. Tells me he's bored, fed up and gets no joy from parenting frequently but also doesn't like us doing fun things without him. It's often a gamble as to whether we'll have joy sucker come with us on days out. I want to be with a co-parent who does all you've listed and gladly. He says my standards are too high for him.

My partner was really fun when I met him, always first on the dance floor, used his days off to socialise and discover new cuisines. His flat seemingly had a never ending stream of visitors with laughter and conversations. 18 years on and his remaining friends find him unrecognisable, he is grumpy and phone addicted. I tell the kids stories of what he used to be like when he was younger and they think I’m making it up.
My dad was similar at the same age but has done a remarkable u-turn and is quite happy now.

Oh, I was rooting for you right up until the end when I thought you were going to say, "up yours to ask the men who do behave like this," but no - it's, "up yours to all the women who notice a trend as though posters haven't explicitly said they're generalising" 😂

So close to not sounding like a dickhead...!

I typed a whole paragraph but really the below spells it out perfectly -

Weirdly the absolute worst thing (to me) was he used to take himself for a poo as soon as I began running my bath once I had put dd to bed.
Never used the down stairs loo, he always chose to use the toilet in the same room as the bath.
Most baths I had always began with the faint aroma of his poo.

It’s been 10 years since we split. I have never regretted it. He would confidently tell anyone that the ‘divorce came out of nowhere’.

JFC, that is the perfect combination of petty and spiteful. I’m glad you got out.

That's a huge change, what do you think did it? And also what made your dad happier?
My dad definitely got a bit grumpier.. think he felt unfufilled more as he got older

So many of these normalish men morph into moody bad tempered twats after children.

My father certainly should never have had them.
We were all healthy and well and we never brought him a moments joy.
His moods dominated the house and ruined my childhood.

When I decided I had enough in my 20's and stopped going home for Christmas he was so sad🙄 apparently.
By that time i had enough of him and after a final visit where he was a rude and moody twat I was done.

I never visited him again.
I never missed him for a minute.
Life was much better without him.

Never underestimate the damage these men and their moods do to children.
Their legacy is sadness, anxiety, and often depression.

i think he’s changed the people he socialises with and I’m sure he is manipulated by YouTube content. He appeared to be very westernised when I met him and our friends were an amazing global mix, now he only associates with people from his home country and holds what I consider very misogynistic views. I believe his old friends brought out the best in him.
I don’t know what caused my dad’s character to change, he has done a lot of reflecting but sometimes I still get glimpses of the old him.

Yep agreed. My father is like this- his mood dominates everything. I get really apprehensive about meals out because the slightest delay or perceived problem will cause him to be so rude to staff and then be angry for the entire meal . It’s embarrassing and unpleasant. He’s never worked in hospitality but frequently tells the staff how they should do their jobs.
He also will not participate in anything that is not his first choice , eg go to something ( like a Christmas event) for the children’s sake.

Thank you ☺️
I don’t think any relationship can survive that level of contempt.
Because that’s what all this grumpiness/moods come down to in the end.

of course like many others I never would have agreed to marry him or have children with him if this is how he behaved, but sadly the changes began firmly when I was ‘barefoot and pregnant’ so to speak. Both things he asked me for.

@ThatKhakiMoose a quick consensus of my female friends show it being more on the grumpy side and the older they are the worse it gets-to be fair there isa lot to piss people off these days but I find more women tend to mask it and certainly go out to try and create nice experiences be it Christmas, holidays, days out etc - how many men am I seeing today rushing round in town here buying 'bits and bobs' - very few- I am however seeing plenty of all male groups going in the pub - of all ages. I think more women prioritise others enjoyment whereas more men ( not all of course) prioritise their own enjoyment

My 73 year old toddler caused a family row when he popped into see our son this morning.

The ass hole came home telling me we were uninvited and it was all my fault.

I went round to calm things down and apologize for whatever I had done.

Turned out he'd laid into DIL when she wouldn't take his shit telling son basically to get his wife in line.

Oh and we weren't uninvited.

I think alot of men just don't like family life.

I've said this so so so many times.

My ex husband was telling me recently how his male friends - these are people he's known since his first day at school, age 4, so 50 years - have all said that if they had their time over they wouldn't have had children, as family life is so 'fucking boring'.

My father hated family life, managed it for 10 years and then escaped to working abroad to get away from it. We'd see him for 2 weeks during the summer and then 2 weeks at Christmas. He didn't even bother coming back when I was in a serious car accident when I was 17. Left my mother for another woman 6 months after my younger brother turned 18.

Yep familiar story. Some of my DH mates go out all the time: play sport, do anything basically to avoid having to do the dreaded “family time”. Mine sucks it up sometimes but I can see that he isn’t exactly exhilarated by the experience. He is only really happy and fully involved on holiday.

Some fellas are obviously good at it but there are many that aren’t.

@FreeRider yep - there are some great dads but I honestly don't think in as many numbers as people think - I heard a group of blokes maybe mid 30s to late 50s at the shared centre I work at discussing this - many were saying they go out cycling or playing golf or going to rugby/football matches as much as they can get away with-several admitted pretending to having to work later than they did to get home as late as possible - thing is they were alllaughing about it too as if to say 'ooh look what we can get away with' - they clearly didn't find hanging round kids and wife a fun prospect

I'm fuming with my selfish dh!! He's been out at the shops all day with his friend and then comes home to go back out to the shop as he didn't get everything. Wants to go our for a drink later but I said no. I need help
It's all me me me

Dh has been in with us this afternoon and evening, but not managed to even fake much Christmas spirit for Dd. Just so tense all the time, he’s actually just so boring as a person.

The most miserable dad I know is frequently insisting on going food shopping, which always takes far longer than you’d imagine. I’m certainly he’s just having a coffee and being absent from the kids.

Yup. My massive grump of an exh was ultimately just extremely boring. Couldn't do much or go out much because he was often in a mood. They are very boring people.

Definitely, it's in the genes. The problem is you can't exactly get rid of them from society, what to do!

Loads of men seem to do the food shop at about 7pm on the way home from work. Wonder what that coincides with?!

My boss is like this. Always saying how much of a drag it all is and how "on a leash" he feels, if he'd had a crystal ball he wouldn't have had kids, blah blah. Sounds like his wife takes no shit and demands he does his share, and quite bloody right. I don't know if this kind of thing has some kudos in some male friendship groups? Like, it's not cool to actually like your wife and kids, and want to spend time with them? If that's the case, then there's a LOT of toxic masculinity needs to get in the bin here.

I think it does take men longer to adjust to the new realities of parenthood in a way because they don't go through the pregnancy. But 7 years on (my boss's eldest age) is a LONG time still to be whining about regretting your life choices. He even agreed to a second child despite professing to hate fatherhood. These man children are not passive bystanders or victims, no matter how much they act it - they took part in making these children so they need to bloody parent them.

if he'd had a crystal ball he wouldn't have had kids, blah blah
@CrazyGoatLady
There are blokes who genuinely want to be parents but others (I hope a minority) have other motives for wanting children. I think some combination of wanting the benfits of being regarded as a stable family man & provider. Seeing it as a way of having more leverage over their partne. A way to make sure she does all the domestic work whilst he has more control & ability to get what he wants.
Not realising I guess that women may see through them & foil their plans

Witness how easily they detach from their kids after separation. Especially if there's another woman providing sex which is all these men want really. Now having the second xmas in which my children's father (using that word in its loosest possible sense) has not contacted them for six weeks and is blanking them on Christmas Day. Anyway, best wishes to you if you too were unlucky enough to have had children with that type of man. They never deserved kids.