Badly behaved child at funeral

[bizzybeing]

My Granddad died recently at the age of 102 and the funeral was this week. DM and her siblings let all the grandchildren know that the great-grandchildren were very welcome at the funeral but not expected and that it was up to us, as parents, to decide whether or not to bring them.

The great-grandchildren range in age from 14yo to 3mo. The older kids all came as did the baby which was no problem. My cousin decided that her 2yo and 4yo would never sit still so didn't bring them.

We discussed it with our boys and they were all keen to go. DS1 (11yo) and DS2 (8yo) are both generally well behaved so I was happy they should come. DS3 is 5yo and can be a menace so I was less sure about taking him but it was a 4hr drive from home and so we'd have to leave him overnight by himself with the PILs. The PILs were happy to do that but DS3 really didn't want to be left so we agreed to take him. Beforehand we set out clear expectations for him and also agreed that if he didn't cope with sitting still then DH would just take him out and go for a walk.

My DB and SIL also decided to bring their kids. My nephew (10yo) was a delight as always. However my niece (5yo) was, in my opinion, a badly behaved brat. DB and family arrived late (they delayed the coffin to let them into the chapel first) because DN refused to get dressed and then DN proceeded to demonstrate her gymnastics skills at the front of the chapel through the entire service! DB and SIL made a few half hearted attempts to get her to sit down but basically just let her carry on doing cartwheels and twirling around waving a scarf over her head.

AIBU to think that if she couldn't sit at least reasonably still then DN should have been taken out of the service?

FWIW this is fairly standard behaviour for DN and DB and SIL could easily have left her at home. They only had a 45min drive to get to the funeral which started at 11am and was on a day they both normally work so have routine childcare from 8am-6pm.

Absolutely. The death of anyone loved is sad, it doesn't matter that they had a full life. That will help with the grief, but it's still sad.

Sorry for your loss OP. Your granddad lived through some amazing history and I’m not surprised you’re feeling his loss so deeply.

However, calling your niece a brat and her brother an Angel is a tad unfair.

Her poor behaviour is directly down to lax parenting at that age (unless SEN) and assuming you normally get on well with your brother I think you should have words with him about his lack of intervention. Point out that you and others were upset by her inappropriate behaviour in the church and felt it very disrespectful at such a solemn occasion.

I feel sorry for your niece. She’s only 5 and if she’s never been given firm boundaries by her parents, she’s going to suffer the consequences when she’s older and that would be a shame.

It wouldn't bother me. A 5-year old has very limited idea of what a funeral or death means. In the country where I come from all the children are taken to funerals regardless - it is normal for all the people regardless of age, maybe except of babies, to take part in all rites of passage. The body is usually displayed in a mortuary where everybody can bid farewell. My dad died last year and all my children, nephews and cousin's children attended. Kids were told not to approach the body, but not everybody listened, though my 3-yo behaved well and stayed on his chair. Then there was a mass and we had to leave the church, cause it was too much for him (he was extremely bored). After that there was a wake with ca. 40 people in a restaurant, lots of food, drink and the playground - kids ate and then went out to play. There were also some black and white baloons hanging on the wall and they grabbed them and played with them. It didn't seem to bother anyone, so I guess everybody considered it normal. But I appreciate it's a different country, so the culture might be a bit different. Maybe death is not considered all doom and gloom, and kids are kids.

I am not sure. Would your Grandad have enjoyed watching twirling about? For me 102 is to be celebrated. Do funerals have to be so very solemn?

OP, I feel sorry for the loss of your GrandParent. He was a great age,the little girl does seem to be a show off. I do hope it didn't spoil things too badly. 102 is an amazing age to live to. What memories you and your family must have with him. I wish you all the best at this sad time.

I'm sorry for your loss. I don't think the child could have been much more disrespectful and the parents were outrageous for not controlling her or taking her out immediately. They must know that their child's behaviour is appalling and should not have taken her to the funeral.

But I appreciate it's a different country, so the culture might be a bit different. Maybe death is not considered all doom and gloom, and kids are kids.

Cartwheels at the front of the church during the ceremony? What culture is that?

Your DB and SIL should be utterly ashamed of themselves but I suspect they don’t have enough insight to feel ashamed. Abysmal parenting and so disrespectful to your grandfather and the mourners.

Since it was your niece I'd have given your brother 5 mins to act and then taken her out myself.

If no one is doing anything then you're all to blame.

Yea, was going to ask what culture thinks cartwheels and showing off is appropriate at a funeral?

Is it sad though?

My husband's grandmother, that brought him up, died at 96, after a short illness. When she was dying she was very pragmatic. Our son got a bit emotional and she told him to stop being so silly.

Her funeral wasn't sad. We were sad that she wasn't there anymore, but her death wasn't sad. Her funeral wasn't sad. She'd lived and died exactly as she wanted. She was a wonderful woman. I'm glad I knew her. Death is inevitable. The death of a centenarian isn't sad. It's great that they lived that long and loved so many people.

Italy??
Italians tend to love kids and tolerate normal kid behaviour alot more than other countries.

Well, I’m not that poster, and I don’t know what her culture is, but I did comment up the thread to say it wouldn’t have bothered me. I’m Irish, and our attitudes to death and funerals are quite different in many ways. For one thing, we go to far more of them, so they’re much more ordinary occasions, it’s not an invitation-only situation, and children’s presence, and the ordinary disruption that brings, is taken for granted.

@Radamanth Of course it's still sad when someone of 102 dies! You still love someone just as much whether they die at 70, 80, or 100. My mum died at 95 and the fact that she had lived such a long life didn't make it any less heartbreaking. I would have been livid if a five year old brat had turned up to her funeral and performed cartwheels throughout the service, and I know that my mum would have felt the same. And yes, I do think this child is a brat.

I would have hated this. Personally don't think it's relevant what the deceased would have thought since they have no idea it's happening.

It doesn't matter how old the person is - My DNanna passed recently at nearly 100 and it was still incredibly sad and distressing. I was just about holding it together during the funeral and so were many others. A disruption like that would have added to the distress.

Sorry, but you are That parent if you do nothing to help her learn what behaviours are appropriate in any given situation. That is your main job as her parent.

As soon as your child starts acting up, you need to step in and actively parent her. There are many techniques you can try that don’t involve losing control and shouting. First choice it to try distracting her with something new to focus on. Make sure you have a few bits in your bag to pull out and use. Try paper and coloured pencils to draw with. Depending on where you are, even using your phone would be better than doing nothing. If you’re in a cafe then make sure she has headphones on if she’s watching a video. No-one else wants to listen to peppa pig!

I don’t think your DN was being a brat, just a typical 5yo. The problem is her parents. Given your description of your DN you obviously have issues with her, but is the problem the child or parents?

I don’t necessarily agree children should not attend funerals. I’ve been going to funerals since I was little, big Irish family were death is just par of the course. But as Catholics we were use to church and sitting still as well as being taught to be respectful to the dead.

I do think that parents need to be very mindful about their children when it comes to funerals, if you have a child that can’t sit still or will get emotional, want attention then they should not be there. Sadly so many parents just have no idea on how to behave in these situations as they think it’s ok their children are doing what ever they are doing to disturb others.

I allowed my 6yo DD to attend my DFs funeral. I had no idea where she was as she was with my DHs family. We agreed they would watch her and my DBs 8 yo DD and if they got upset or bored my SIL would take them out. Apparently she did at one point but I had no idea because it was done quietly. My 4yo and baby were with my best friend who brought them to the wake afterwards.

I hate the whole let’s wear bright colours thing at funerals. The funeral is the service to say goodbye, the wake is the party to celebrate the deceased. I know everyone is different but I could never attend a funeral in a bright coloured outfit, the last funeral I went to this year we wear asked to wear something of a specific colour, most of the men wore pin badges or ties of the colour and the women scarfs or hair accessories, I think this is better than asking someone to wear bright orange.

A normal one with a healthy attitude to all the generations, where neither old folk nor children are excluded by age, and that have a healthy acceptance of death as part of life. It's a dysfunctional culture that excludes children from weddings and funerals, and it's ironic that the families that do this are frequently the ones that only get together for such events.

Hang on to your pearls, but both sides of our family have young children at funerals and dogs at the graveside.

i understand why children did not used to be at funerals. to be honest if people get very emotional and upset its a lot to cope with for me as an adult, but a child surely would wonder why their aunt/mum/dad etc would be crying so much. you cannot really explain grief to young children and as for this child she would have been marched out of church.

i remember years ago a very posh wedding just before the service my uncle gave me a sticky lollipop. mum lost her mind worrying i would get dirty so she took it away from me. i didnt show off as she said i could have it back at the reception plus also forgot all about it with all the excitement of the bride etc. unfortunately my uncle who had a wicked sense of humour during the vows whispered to me
' where's your lollipop' i was only 3 so hence lots of yelling during which my dad was ordered to take me out of the church!

I understand your frustration and bringing the 5YO was really poor judgement of the parents. However, I think you are bu to label the child badly behaved. Most 5YO's wouldn't sit still for such a long time for something like this. They're also at an age where they are starting to understand death but it's really confusing and upsetting to process. This is likely their first experience of the death of a loved one? This is all on the parents not the child. The child isn't a brat they were put in an unreasonably difficult situation.

Unless the child is always like this, it's likely she was acting up because of being in an unfamiliar situation, possibly picking up on people being upset and at five not fully understanding what was happening.

In other situations she may have relatives encouraging her to do cartwheels.

This is on the parents - children don't automatically know how to behave in different circumstances, they need to be taught. And removed if necessary.

Perhaps your granddad would have had a wry smile at his grandchild’s antics in the solemness of the hour. Try and view it like that instead of disrespect.

I don't think it's right to label a 5 year old a 'brat'. It was her parents failure to manage the situation, the annoyance should lie with them, not a five year old reacting to a situation she clearly should not have been in.

I agree with others that it does kind of depend on how the deceased would of felt about it as well, my Grandad for example would have found it absolutely hilarious and it would have gone down in family history and remembered quite fondly. My husbands Granny on the other hand would have found it disrespectful in the extreme and the child probably wouldn't have been invited in the first place. One of our family members showed up to her funeral in a denim dress and it's still looked down upon as Granny would have had a LOT to say about it.

I'm very sorry for your loss, 102 is a grand old age.

As a parent you do what you do at any formal occasion, funerals don't need special rules or for children to have 'experience' in what to do, responsibility is on the parents.

You sit at the end of the row with your exit rout planned, at the first sign of any disruption from a child you grab them and calmly take them outside. Zero excuses for anything else.

People making excuses for any other course of action is why this generation has such issues with behaviour.

of course, but do you think its THAT easy to pull out a few pens. my bag has all kinds of distractions which work for a while but kids get bored. i would remove my kid from that kind of situation as i have done in the past but it wasnt easy and afterwards people would say why did i remove her she wasnt causing much of a fuss. all i'm saying is its not always obvious to a parent that the child has to be removed.

it seems like the parents in this situation tried for a while. they didnt remove her - maybe they should have, maybe it wasnt disturbing many people. i mean we were not there so who knows what people thought. OP referred to her as a brat so maybe her thoughts were clouded by her already having put that label on her.