Badly behaved child at funeral

[bizzybeing]

My Granddad died recently at the age of 102 and the funeral was this week. DM and her siblings let all the grandchildren know that the great-grandchildren were very welcome at the funeral but not expected and that it was up to us, as parents, to decide whether or not to bring them.

The great-grandchildren range in age from 14yo to 3mo. The older kids all came as did the baby which was no problem. My cousin decided that her 2yo and 4yo would never sit still so didn't bring them.

We discussed it with our boys and they were all keen to go. DS1 (11yo) and DS2 (8yo) are both generally well behaved so I was happy they should come. DS3 is 5yo and can be a menace so I was less sure about taking him but it was a 4hr drive from home and so we'd have to leave him overnight by himself with the PILs. The PILs were happy to do that but DS3 really didn't want to be left so we agreed to take him. Beforehand we set out clear expectations for him and also agreed that if he didn't cope with sitting still then DH would just take him out and go for a walk.

My DB and SIL also decided to bring their kids. My nephew (10yo) was a delight as always. However my niece (5yo) was, in my opinion, a badly behaved brat. DB and family arrived late (they delayed the coffin to let them into the chapel first) because DN refused to get dressed and then DN proceeded to demonstrate her gymnastics skills at the front of the chapel through the entire service! DB and SIL made a few half hearted attempts to get her to sit down but basically just let her carry on doing cartwheels and twirling around waving a scarf over her head.

AIBU to think that if she couldn't sit at least reasonably still then DN should have been taken out of the service?

FWIW this is fairly standard behaviour for DN and DB and SIL could easily have left her at home. They only had a 45min drive to get to the funeral which started at 11am and was on a day they both normally work so have routine childcare from 8am-6pm.

Exactly.

I daresay the parents wish they hadn't taken her and gave her a good telling off when back home, but it's over now. The little girl will grow up and know how to behave appropriately in time.

I hope her mum doesn't read this, she will be mortified more than she is already.

Granddad may well have been delighted at his li little great-grand enjoying herself, he did live to 103 after all and had seen it all before, bless him.

As long as the OP would be quite happy for her boys to be called a brat when they misbehave ( which they will as all children do at some point). The behaviour was awful but I think that’s a horrible way to describe your niece especially when the boy is described as an angel which I bet he isn’t all of the time.

We went to one of DH's friends funerals last year, and his grandson was there aged 3. It was actually really charming that he was wandering round, having a chat to everyone and it really lightened the mood. When they showed photos of his granddad, he shouted "grandpa" out and it brought a tear to everyone's eye. They also brought the family dog and he walked in front of the hearse. It just gave everyone a real sense of the close family that they all were/are. It was a sad death (late 60s) but they made the funeral into a huge celebration of the life he'd had.

But holding up a funeral procession is one of those things that you just don't do. I'd be more cross with them for that tbh.

I would suggest the bad behaviour was by the parents. They knew she was unlikely to appropriately manage it and then one of them should have taken her out when she started being silly. They set her up to fail and ruined things for everyone else.

Yikes. I'm surprised no one else swooped in and took her out. I would have faced the wrath of my sibling if I took it upon myself to take my niece out if she doing cartwheels in church and her parents didn't stop her.
While I agree entirely that children bring a breath of hope to solemn events, the actual funeral service in a church is absolutely NOT the place.

I'm a bit conflicted here.

A 102 year old's funeral isn't really a sad occasion, it's quite happy that a person lived that long and has lots of family there to celebrate their life.

So, not a solem meeting.

And, in some ways, a GGGC pissing about? If I was the deader, I'd quite like that.

HOWEVER, it is a funeral, and 'appropriate behaviour' .

I don't know. I find funerals very odd in terms of how one should behave. I've been to a lot of funerals.

I have said to my family, I want renting and weeping and throwing oneself in the grave.

We're all going to die, I'd like funerals to be more comedic. I'd go to more funerals if they were comedy.

I mean by 'untimely' that the parent or sibling of a young child living their expected lifespan would not die while the child was young.

In other words, the early death of an immediate family member isn't to be compared with the death of an elderly relative when considering whether to take a child to a funeral; and no one (with a heart) would judge a small child's behaviour at their parent's/sibling's funeral.

Not ok. One of the parents should have taken her outside if she couldn’t sit still.

That's so disrespectful and her parents need to learn some parenting skills, if they don't buck their ideas up they're going to end up with one hell of a teenager.

Exactly.

A very elderly dying is fine and dandy.

A child? No. That's a horrible funeral. One you don't want to attend.

A 102 year-old? That's a jolly.

Also once she refused to get dressed if I was your brother, I would have said I'm leaving now with son and you will have to stay at home with her.
But she's obviously in charge of that household.

Children should attend funerals. They shouldn't dance around.

I'm all for children playing and, for very very young kids, making noise in church including during a funeral - after all they are living breathing buildings - but not in such a way that it detracts from the solemnity of the service or at the front.

This wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. Different, perhaps, if it was an untimely death, and people were shocked and grieving, but for the death of someone who had a long life and died at 102, where it’s a celebration of a life, I don’t think there’s any issue with kids running around and playing.

This would have given me the rage. OP, what did you do?

Hopefully she DOES read it and smartens up her parenting skills.
I know a vicar very well, and she would have paused proceedings for this sort of disrespect behavior, not allowed some badly raised brat use her church as a theme park.

A five year old I'd too old to be thinking that that is OK at a funeral. My daughter just turned 6 and even she would not do this.. and she has ASD. When she was 4 she went to my dads funeral and danced to the song he had chosen as the lowered the coffin. As it was her grandad who she was close to and I knew he wouldn't have minded I let that go. For the rest of the service she was quiet and well behaved. She took it very seriously.
I don't think it dents your child's self esteem to be told there are some events that aren't about them and where it is inappropriate to show off their skills.

I'm very sorry for your loss and I'm sorry that the funeral didn't go the way you had anticipated.

I disagree strongly that children shouldn't be at funerals. They can be an important rite of passage and children should be included if possible. I also disagree that funerals absolutely have to be sombre. Quite often they can be a celebration of a life well lived (and dying at age 102 leaving behind a large and loving family seems like a life very well lived). My own mums funeral was absolutely a celebration - she was finally free from pain and reunited with her much loved husband after decades of widowhood.

People are saying it was disrespectful to the mourners seem to forget that the parent of this child was, like the OP, a mourner too. Perhaps it would have been better to have removed her but maybe in his grief he wasn't thinking clearly. Perhaps he knew that if he removed her she would have kicked up holy hell and been even more of a distraction.

It must be hard losing your grandad. 102! He must’ve lived a life.

I’ve been to many funerals. Too many for people who’ve died tragically young. The most heart-warming, healing ones have had lots of children at them. They’ve been celebrations of life and joyous affairs, despite the pain and tears. So, IMHO it doesn’t matter if children are playing at a funeral. All the people whose funerals I’ve attended would have loved that!

But, funerals are mainly for the close loved ones to help with their grief. If they want the funeral to be quiet and calm, that should be respected. Some children really struggle to sit still. They can pick up on lots of sadness and it makes them stressed. So, I agree in such cases, it’s respectful to the closest loved ones to take your children outside to let off steam for a bit and explain that people want to be quiet and they should be respectful of that. They have to understand it in other contexts, like school lessons and assemblies.

It's not the kid's fault. At five she has no understanding of what a funeral is for or what death really is. Don't get me started on her parents, though. They have no excuses.....Who wants to see that shit at a funeral? Why they didn't pick her up and take her outside I don't know.... Someone needs to tell them that she's not as cute as they seem to believe.

Being 5 means she'll be in school and will be expected to sit for a similar amount of time in assembly so it's all down the the parents allowing it, extremely disrespectful for them to not even try to get her to sit down. I'd be really annoyed about it.

Can you recognise that it's likely many people at the funeral WOULD be bothered. I imagine there were quite a few elderly relatives who hopefully love children but also want to have some time in quiet thought.

I think you will be in the minority thinking it's not an issue to have children running around and playing in a place of worship.

A 102 year old's funeral isn't really a sad occasion, it's quite happy that a person lived that long and has lots of family there to celebrate their life.

Not getting at you as I've seen several people say this (calling it "a jolly" was probably a bit much).

Yes 102 is a long, full life and no-one would say it's a tragedy like the loss of a much younger person.
However, people have still lost their loved one, they are still bereaved, and will still miss and mourn them.

and no one (with a heart) would judge a small child's behaviour at their parent's/sibling's funeral

Give over. It’s a 5yo, not a 3yo. This is a school age child. One that is expected to sit appropriately through school events/assemblies etc. So, they will do this at school but not with their parents, very simply because they know their parents let them take the piss. Similarly with the refusing to get dressed. They need to get dressed to get to school on time but did this on this occasion as they knew their parents would let them take the piss, and they did. The child is a brat and the parents are enablers.

Sorry for your loss, he must have led an amazing life at 102 and lucky to have seen so many great grandchildren.

I am on the fence with this one. the funeral was likely a celebration of life. I dont think its fair to leave a child at home if both parents wanted to attend. its unfair of you to refer to her as a brat. kids that age can be difficult. I have an almost 4yo and she has so much energy she runs around and gets excited by new places. Am i a bad parent for not telling her to keep still? I dont want to hold her down and dont want to shout as thats so damaging to a young child. removing her wouldnt have been easy either. I have been to weddings where I had had to remove her from the ceremony and wait outside. she cried, she screamed. its hard on the parents too. i'm not sure how different a 3.5 yo is from a 5 yo. i havent got there yet.

if the tone of the funeral was sad and subdued than yes maybe they should have just taken her outside and dealt with a tantrum or parent guilt. but if not, if spirits were high and you were in a celebratory mood, i dont think its an obvious point for the parents to have taken. sometimes when kids are so energetic a lot of it is like white noise. you dont even realise that its disturbing others. I suppose some of this is a lesson for me really - in future i should look around to see if anyone is particularly horrified by my kid's actions.

She is a product of lazy parenting.
At 5 she absolutely should be able to behave or simply be walked out if she needed a break.

Her parents are 100% to blame.
She knows no better.

Blame the parents, never the child in these situations.
Your useless brother and SIL are to blame.

Forget about it, you can't change people like that, you simply avoid them.