Londoners not giving up seats on tube for pregnant women

[ParkAndRider]

I am 32 weeks pregnant with an obvious large bump and wear a baby on board badge. I commute at rush hour and usually every time I get on board the tube there are no seats available. I see the people sitting glance at me and then look pretend and pretend they haven't noticed. I've just endured another journey standing the whole way feeling tired and dizzy because no one will offer a seat. Yes I could ask but it would feel uncomfortable why can't anyone offer? Surely all the people sitting can't be hiding various disabilities?

I wear a "Please offer me a seat" badge as I can't stand that comfortably (leg joint damage) for daily commuting. It mostly works ... but I wear it to try and avoid having to ask out loud because it's obvious. Trains are better than the tube usually but can confirm there is a tragic rate of selective illiteracy on both when confronted with either a POMAS or BOB badge. Particularly amongst fit looking young men in cycling gear who still let their eyes roam the carriage a bit.

I'm usually not going long distances on the tube so I often do stand if it's busy as I do a shortish journey and by the time I've fought to the seats if it's busy, I then have to run a gauntlet to get off - after being ignored anyway. I also sometimes decline kind offers on there if I'm having a good day, explaining that it's ok but I'm only going 1 or two stops and that the badge is more for my longer train commute. I always thank people though. They definitely ignore pregnant women more than me, although after my accident, when I was still using a stick and had a visible limp I had an older gent look me up and down with visible disgust when he had to let me sit in the window seat next to him on the bus. Walking aids are NOT exclusive to the elderly!

Some people are unbelievable. I had a man (standing) give me a sickly sweet smile and patronisingly ask me to kindly give up my seat for a pregnant woman, with my POMAS badge on display. I declined but suggested he ask anyone in the carriage NOT wearing one, like the man sat next to me. My seat mate was a giant of man. I think the asker found him intimidating next to the little blonde lady!

I've had someone ask for my seat and the one of the lady next to me on the train so she and her 9-10 year old Dd could sit and do the kids morning hair routine on the way to school. I refused - badged, and the lady next to me (by the window) was getting off at the next stop shortly and said they could have her seat when she stood. I semi-stood up briefly before then to do something- probably readjust my clothes and nearly sat down on the kid . Her mum had tried to slide her in behind me. I did snap at them.

Travelling on a packed skeleton service on a strike day is the worst. If you're not on at the start, you will not get a seat. I've been visibly badged, squashed against the window with a bike handle practically trying to enter me whilst a happy man in lycra centimetres away has stretched out as much as possible and smiled jauntily right at me as he looked round the carriage and went back to his phone to read. The badge makes it very apparent that I need a seat. I shouldn't have to ask on top.

Ive seen a tall man get on an SWR service pushing a very little girl in a tiny wheelchair. It was a hot day, fairly busy service, he looked tired and he was obviously having to really bend to deal with the chair- his poor back. Two cyclists had the seats next to the wheel chair/buggy/bike area, with their bikes, having a nice chat. These seats are near the doors and marked priority. Tired man and I were stood right in front of them and they clocked us and then deliberately only looked right at each other (bar the odd side eye to see if we'd gone) for ages until I said something. I know we have voices but we also have eyes and brains. I also know that not all disabilities or needs are apparent but I am prepared to be told that.

People move when asked, if you don’t ask don’t moan.

Yes this!! I feel your pain!

I am 30 weeks pregnant and have so far only been offered a seat once. (I wear a ‘baby on board’ badge. Earlier this week I panicked as I was getting crushed as more people were pushing onto train and shouted “please can someone let me have a seat” and not one person moved. I then felt embarrassed for asking.

I have always given my seat up for others so have been really disappointed with my experience.

When I was standing on the tube the other day, a standing man said loudly to a pregnant woman "Don't worry, love, I'm sure one of these people sitting down is going to offer you a seat, they just haven't noticed you need one". A couple of young men hastily got up immediately. I thought it was a great tactic and stored it away for future use.

I’m am sure some people live in a parallel universe. I’ve been commuting in London for over 35 years and travel at least five days a week as WFH is not an option for me (I also travelled to school by tube) and have never seen anyone told to fuck off for asking for a seat, and on an almost daily basis see people offered seats if pregnant, wearing a blue badge or elderly. I’ve also never seen anyone abused for offering a seat even if the person asked doesn’t need it.

Have you actually read the Equality Act? If you had, you would realise that there is no need to try to twist pregnancy to fit some disability definition, because there are separate protections for pregnancy in the Act.

I pointed this out upthread. | worked as a disability outreach worker for many years and sadly I’ve seen my share of perfectly able bodied people trying to take advantage of benefits and schemes designed for disabled people, but this is the first time I’ve seen anyone try to claim pregnancy as a disability. The poster wanted temporary pregnancy conditions to be recognised as short term disabilities when the Act doesn’t even recognise temporary non pregnancy related conditions as disabilities unless they are expected to last 12 months or more. As you say, the Act already covers pregnancy related rights.

If I had been that pregnant woman I would have been embarrassed that a man needed to advocate for me. What a message to send to everyone on the tube.
Is it really the case that on a busy tube train someone would verbally or physically abuse a pregnant woman? If all the passengers are arseholes then they won't care whether the person asking for a seat is a man or woman.

If I had been that pregnant woman I would have been embarrassed that a man needed to advocate for me

Tbf, it sounds like the OP won’t advocate for herself.

I see sarcasm isn't your strong point 😂 that's okay, being offended seems to be! That's quite a common "skill" these days.

That’s great. It must mean it’s very unusual, but just because you’ve not seen people being rude doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen.

I’ve been pregnant for about 23 months of my life so far, have similar tube usage to you, and have had “only” had two bad experiences whilst asking for a seat. Neither of these happened in a parallel universe

I wouldn’t count having to ask for a seat as a bad experience, though - like others have said, that’s pretty common as commuters tend to be zoned out or staring at the floor. If asked, the vast majority of people are very obliging.

Normal people don't look up random bits of legislation when they're using common language, and anyway the point is that women who are pregnant are less able to do things (like stand up for ages on the tube) than they are when they're not pregnant, so we should help them out. This is how normal people understand the term. No-one is claiming that they're somehow permanently disabled. Why are we arguing about this?

Not saying anyone is claiming they’re permanently disabled. At all. You were the one who said you had issues with the Equality Act, and I can only assume that’s because you don’t understand the purpose of it. The point is that the Equality Act defines disability and enshrines it in law. Disabled people have fought long and hard for that. The definition is that a health condition has to be significant enough in its’ impact on everyday life and has to last longer than twelve months to be considered a disability. So in spite of the fact that many non pregnancy related conditions don’t qualify as a disability because they don’t meet the criteria, you’re suggesting that we should just bypass that for pregnancy related ones.

The Equality Act confers similar levels of protection for pregnant women - they have protected characteristics which again, are enshrined in law, and when you muddy the waters you end up with entitlement at the level of a poster upthread who advised that all pregnant women should obtain crutches so they can get a seat on the tube. If you can’t see how unreasonable (not to mention offensive) that is, I can’t help you. If you want to give up your seat on the tube, or any other place, or offer other courtesies or concessions to pregnant women that’s fine - laudable in fact. I applaud it. But pregnancy is a choice, disability is not. Let’s not conflate the two.

Didn’t come across as sarcasm. And even if it had, speaking as a disabled person myself and having worked as a disability outreach worker for over twenty years, I would still have found it offensive. People are mindful and respectful of so many issues these days - gender ID, using correct pronouns and a host of other issues. But it seems it’s still OK to offend the disabled. Take your smiley face and jog on.

sorry this is happening :( this society is way to individualistic it’s such a shame we’ve completely lost any sense of community

I've got an invisible disability and a badge and if I was asked by someone pregnant to give up a seat I would say no, and explain why, but say sorry. I wouldn't feel obliged to stand, and I don't know why you think I would. My disability is very real... I wish it wasn't! I regularly have to ask for a seat - even with my badge (I think people don't notice tbf), and most people are alright, but you get the odd arsehole. I don't really have an option though. You just need to bite the bullet and ask.

How do you know I can actually jog?!!?!??! WHY DO YOU THINK I WAS USING CRUTCHES? Did you ASSUME that I don't have a disability?! Wow.

Not to mention, how YOU pick up what I say is a YOU problem not a me problem. I KNOW what and HOW I meant it. Just wow. What sane person would actually use crutches when pregnant to get a seat instead of just being vocal? Maybe you see that as a genuine option because it's something you'd consider? Usually those who'd do the crime, see the crime 🤔

Pregnancy isn't a disability. I wouldn't generally notice an adult wearing a badge. Why can't people just use their words like big girls and boys instead of wearing a badge like a five-year old.

Why would l consider using crutches when l’m already in a wheelchair ?

Didn’t assume anything. You didn’t say you were disabled, you said ‘when l had crutches’. And ‘jog on’ is a term often used on MN - not usually taken literallly, but then you knew that.

I got off the train at my stop the other week and an old man got on and fell to his knees. I jumped back on to try to help him up but he was heavy and I couldn’t help him and no one moved a muscle, just watched us - until I asked for someone to help us out. I was surprised

Bystander syndrome. You were helping him, so no one else thought they needed to.

I've been thinking about this, and come to the conclusion OP that you should just ask for a seat, and asking is OK, I don't understand why you would be hung up on that. It's also OK, if the person already in the seat has a disability etc, for them to tell you that. Why can't we just talk to each other out in society?

I am quite vocal if I see e.g. a bunch of youngsters sitting while a person who looks elderly and frail stands, but it has to be extreme case.

When I was pregnant in Amsterdam, it felt like people from an Middle Eastern or Turkish background were much more alert to standing up, same with helping with buggies up stairs, and the Dutch a lot more 'oh get on with it' or just blasé. But this is a sample of one.

It does not matter if it does not meet the definition of a disability. Someone on crutches due to a broken foot would not meet the definition either, but I would hope no one would give them shit for sitting in a priority seat.